Honeycreek Dexters
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All Natural Drug Free Grass Fed Beef, From Our Herd Sire Phoenix
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Post by Honeycreek Dexters on Jul 7, 2011 10:56:58 GMT -5
Well then we are both lost, because I can’t figger out how you only get 238 lbs. of meat from a 630 lb. animal. That is much less than a 50% cut out.
We generally get about ~60% so that means my animal weighed ~ 750 lbs. at 19 months. We attempt to get 900 Lb. Live weight at 24 mos.
We turn them out on mixed pasture grasses with 2 kinds of clover in the summer. And free choice alfalfa and timothy and orchard grass in the winter months while the animals are off pasture and in paddocks. No drugs or chem. and plenty of fresh water. And a free choice loose minerals/salt combination.
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Post by kansasdexters on Jul 7, 2011 11:50:25 GMT -5
Live Weight vs. Carcass Weight vs. Finished Cut Weight
Sounds like it's time for a lesson in meat processing:
Please note that turning a live animal into meat means removing a lot of the parts that aren't edible, like the hide, feet, head, most bones, and most of the internal organs. This happens in two steps:
1. When the animal is slaughtered, weight is lost from the animal's live weight. What remains is called the "carcass weight" (sometimes called the "hanging weight"). The percentage of live weight that remains as carcass weight is called the "dressing percentage".
Average Dressing percentages:
61% for Beef Cattle (Dexter steers typically range from 55% to 65%) 72% for Hogs
2. When the carcass is made into finished cuts, weight is lost from the carcass weight. What remains is called the "finished cut weight". The percentage of carcass weight that remains as usable meat is called "carcass cutting yield".
To determine how much meat you should expect to take home from an animal, use the following calculation:
Live Weight X Dressing Percentage X Carcass Cutting Yield = Pounds of Usable Meat Products
A Dexter steer with a live weight of 630 lb and a Dressing Percentage of 60% (typical) will have a hot carcass weight of 630 x 0.6 = 378 lb (your steer had a hanging weight of 360 lb, a 57.1% dressing percentage)
If the carcass is hung in a cooler for the recommended 14 to 21 days of dry aging (to develop the natural tenderness), the carcass will lose approximately 10% of its hot carcass weight due to evaporation of excess moisture. That amounts to a loss of 36 lb for this example. So at the time it is cut into meat, this carcass will weigh approximately 360 lb - 36 lb = 324 lb. If you kept everything (including the tendons, sinew, dried spots, and all the fat) and trimmed nothing - the maximum weight you would get when this carcass was cut would be 324 lb (this is 51.4% of the live weight). But you don't keep everything -- the processor removes the excessive fat, the tendons, the sinew, the dried patches on the outside of the carcass, and most of the bones. So you ended up with 238 pounds of "usable" meat, soup bones, and organs -- the finished cut weight.
The carcass cutting yield is the finished cut weight divided by the hot carcass weight. I'll use your hanging weight of 360 lb, so the carcass cutting yield is (238 lb / 360 lb) x 100% = 66.1% (this is a very acceptable yield)
So we have the following:
630 lb liveweight of steer x 0.571 dressing out x 0.661 cutting yield = 238 lb of usable meat product
That's a very normal and acceptable result for a small Dexter steer that has been properly finished.
Patti
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Honeycreek Dexters
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All Natural Drug Free Grass Fed Beef, From Our Herd Sire Phoenix
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Post by Honeycreek Dexters on Jul 7, 2011 13:01:47 GMT -5
Without getting into a long diatribe here we cannot hang a beef for over 7 days as per the USDA onsite inspector. After 7 days the cut is entirely in his purview. And he makes the packing house cut’em up.
As I have said in past posts in this venue we use the formula; Hanging Weight divided by .62 equal’s est. Live Weight.
The numbers I gave in my response were from memories of last year’s steer which we split with the in-laws.
Using this formula with only the packaged meat 428/.62=690 Lbs. As best as I can remember when I used the hanging weight I got ~750 Lb. live weight. This is only the way I do it, I’m sure others have their own way and I won’t presume to teach anyone any lessons.
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Honeycreek Dexters
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All Natural Drug Free Grass Fed Beef, From Our Herd Sire Phoenix
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Post by Honeycreek Dexters on Jul 7, 2011 13:14:06 GMT -5
Just looked the full text of my previous post is the first post on page 2 of the got beef topic, looks like my original est. was actualy 715 lbs. live weight.
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Post by Star Creek Dexters on Jul 7, 2011 13:22:21 GMT -5
Patti, thanks for the fantastic break down! I haven't seen an explanation that thorough yet.
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Post by kansasdexters on Jul 7, 2011 13:52:29 GMT -5
Honeycreek,
I agree that hanging weight divided by 0.62 does give an approximate live weight that is a reasonable estimate. But hanging weight does not equal finished cut weight, for the reasons that I explained.
I've collected data on more than 20 Dexter steers that we have processed from our herd and that we've actually weighed to determine their live weight, hanging weight, and finished cut weight. I can also give you the breakdown in primal and subprimal weights, if you'd like to know how much the chuck, brisket and shank, rib, short plate, flank, short loin, sirloin, round, and organ meats (by organ), fat, and bone actually weigh.
How long a carcass can be hung in the cooler and dry aged is determined by the thickness and distribution of the fat layer on the outside of the carcass. Without an adequate fat layer, the carcass will dry out too fast and the trim losses will be too high -- and that's why most grassfed beef (and bison meat) is only allowed to hang for 7 days. Because if it hangs for more than 7 days, the trim losses become too great. That's why most processors automatically assume that if they get a grassfed animal, they will only hang it for 7 days. We had to work with our processor in order to understand this, and to make sure that we allowed our steers sufficient time to develop enough "finish" (on grass) to be able to extend this dry aging period.
A properly grass-finished Dexter steer will have about a 1/4-inch layer of fat on the outside of the carcass, and it can be hung to dry age for 14 to 21 days without excessive trim losses. All of our meat is State Inspected during slaughter and during processing. We sell retail and wholesale and every package of our Dexter beef carries the Kansas State Inspected Seal and Permit number. We aren't breaking any USDA rules by having our beef hung and dry aged for 14 to 21 days. Our processor has a "zero mold tolerance" policy and our carcasses are not moldy at the end of 21 days of dry aging.
Patti
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Honeycreek Dexters
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All Natural Drug Free Grass Fed Beef, From Our Herd Sire Phoenix
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Post by Honeycreek Dexters on Jul 7, 2011 15:33:59 GMT -5
kansasdexters In our case the time a beef (any beef) can be hung is determined by a USDA inspector working through the State Board of Animal Health. We don’t have state level inspectors per-say. His criteria as told to me by him are when the meat is in danger of spoilage and he is the only one that has the authority to make that call. The processor does not have a thing to say about it. No amount of explanation or cajoling or teaching or anything else is going to make him change his mind. Now he may do this as a precaution to the public I don’t know but I can make a supposition.
I don’t know how many beef animals or hogs we have put through this same packing house, I do know it is many more than 20. I do know that we have been using them since I was a child in my mother’s arms; we have known the family that owns it now and the last family for over 50 years. My wife is a forth gen. farmer from this county and her father and grandfather both took the animals they raised to the same place. They are and were beef cattle and hog and row crop farmers.
Now we have never collected any true DATA (on Dexter’s) but when I started raising Dexters I found I needed to know a little more about their size so I made some minimal inquiries. In none of my inquiries did I find or see where a finished cut and wrapped half beef from a 630 lb. animal would be ~120 lbs. I get more meat than that from the deer I shoot out in the alfalfa fields. Now I don’t put myself up as an authority on all things Dexter and I don’t presume to teach anyone. I convey my thoughts and experiences in the hope it helps some folks and the breed in general.
I also sell beef but to a niche market mostly academics, and married students we sell them by the half or whole beef only and cut to customer order specs. Ours is also packaged with a USDA insp. sticker. We do sell some breeding stock but not much or many. I thank you for your offer to tell me how much a loin or flank weighs, but it would be just as simple for me to put it on the scale. Good Day to You.
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Post by kansasdexters on Jul 7, 2011 16:26:26 GMT -5
Honeycreek,
If you actually weigh it, you will know. If you don't, then you will guess. If you want to know, then weigh it. If you want to guess, then don't.
FYI, you can't manage what you don't measure. If you really want to know what the yields are, you will weigh them.
Patti
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Honeycreek Dexters
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All Natural Drug Free Grass Fed Beef, From Our Herd Sire Phoenix
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Post by Honeycreek Dexters on Jul 7, 2011 19:54:10 GMT -5
kansasdexters Argue with someone else, it is obvious to me you know it all so be confidant in your knowledge and leave me alone.
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Honeycreek Dexters
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All Natural Drug Free Grass Fed Beef, From Our Herd Sire Phoenix
Posts: 362
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Post by Honeycreek Dexters on Jul 7, 2011 20:14:39 GMT -5
Honeycreek, I agree that hanging weight divided by 0.62 does give an approximate live weight that is a reasonable estimate. But hanging weight does not equal finished cut weight, for the reasons that I explained. I've collected data on more than 20 Dexter steers that we have processed from our herd and that we've actually weighed to determine their live weight, hanging weight, and finished cut weight. I can also give you the breakdown in primal and subprimal weights, if you'd like to know how much the chuck, brisket and shank, rib, short plate, flank, short loin, sirloin, round, and organ meats (by organ), fat, and bone actually weigh. How long a carcass can be hung in the cooler and dry aged is determined by the thickness and distribution of the fat layer on the outside of the carcass. Without an adequate fat layer, the carcass will dry out too fast and the trim losses will be too high -- and that's why most grassfed beef (and bison meat) is only allowed to hang for 7 days. Because if it hangs for more than 7 days, the trim losses become too great. That's why most processors automatically assume that if they get a grassfed animal, they will only hang it for 7 days. We had to work with our processor in order to understand this, and to make sure that we allowed our steers sufficient time to develop enough "finish" (on grass) to be able to extend this dry aging period. A properly grass-finished Dexter steer will have about a 1/4-inch layer of fat on the outside of the carcass, and it can be hung to dry age for 14 to 21 days without excessive trim losses. All of our meat is State Inspected during slaughter and during processing. We sell retail and wholesale and every package of our Dexter beef carries the Kansas State Inspected Seal and Permit number. We aren't breaking any USDA rules by having our beef hung and dry aged for 14 to 21 days. Our processor has a "zero mold tolerance" policy and our carcasses are not moldy at the end of 21 days of dry aging. Patti She did not address any of the points I made,---- whats that tell you? I'm done with this BS, that is why I dont post on here much. One argument after another. A half of a steer at ~120 lbs. @ 26 mos. And she wants to say that is:--- I'll use her words - "That's a very normal and acceptable result for a small Dexter steer that has been properly finished" Well that may be acceptable in Kansas but it is not in the real world I live in. We raise beef animals for food. And if I feed one for 2+years I expect to get somthing out of it. My hay costs me ~2.00 per bale and that is one bale per animal every other day. You do the math. Thats it I'm done, follow your leaders.
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Post by Olga on Jul 7, 2011 22:24:42 GMT -5
To sum it up: the steer was small for his age - may have had too small of a frame, may have had low potential for carrying beef, as in a dairy-built steer. The yield from such a steer was low but not unreasonably so - according to formulas described by Patti. As to aging beef, the outer fat cover does determine the potential for how long a carcass can safely hang; but the person in charge, such as an inspector, has the ultimate say-so. Thanks, everybody for an informative discussion.
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Post by copperhead on Jul 8, 2011 21:49:50 GMT -5
Patti, thanks for the formula, thats very informative. I always have to guess at what one will make, in actual take home beef, this makes it easier to tell a customer what they will actually get. P.J.
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dexterlady
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Post by dexterlady on Jul 8, 2011 22:55:50 GMT -5
Honeycreek, I am sorry now I even posted this! This was not to start any arguements with anyone. I was just so sure I did not get enough meat back. I finished this steer using $7.00/ bale of the highest quality coastal hay I could find,( could not find any round bales ) plus protein tubs, salt /min.licks, I thought I did eveything right, but like I said I was very disappointed. Now that everyone has added all this info. including yours, now I am thinking it was several different things. But again like I said, I will do things different next time.......Thanks ............Donna
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dexterlady
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Post by dexterlady on Jul 8, 2011 22:59:22 GMT -5
Patty, thank you very much for the info. I guess after I have had more animals processed I will learn all this..Thanks for your help.........Donna
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dexterlady
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Post by dexterlady on Jul 8, 2011 23:19:48 GMT -5
Hey Genbo,Your right , I did keep a lot of the organ meats for my dogs. I did feed the steer the night before we took him and he probably did tank up on water. So I guess that all has to be a factor. I guess I didn't come out as bad as I thought. At least my NEW freezer is full of meat so I am thankful!!.....Donna
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