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Post by wanette on Jun 27, 2011 17:47:38 GMT -5
Ok, Finally got son#1 to show me how to post a pic. This is the cow that I'm having trouble with calf being unable to nurse.
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Post by Star Creek Dexters on Jun 27, 2011 18:51:18 GMT -5
OY! I can see why. I bet once you get the inflamatin down and she adjusts her milk supply to the calves needs, her udder will not look anything like this. Does it balloon up this big every day after she's milked out? Is she getting milked out only once a day? Is the calf nursing at all yet? Sorry, lots of questions
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Post by wanette on Jun 27, 2011 19:09:57 GMT -5
Her udder didn't look anything like this until about two months or so before calf was born. We are not able to milk her out at all, am considering taking her back to vet to be drained out, again. My face is still healing from the last milking attempt. Calf tries to nurse after each feeding and she is a good mama, always close to calf and taking care of her. Calf is still using a goat nipple on bottle, I keep trying the regular calf nipple but she gets tired and gives up. Vet said calf has a low frustration level, gets frustrated easily and gives up.
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Post by Clive on Jun 28, 2011 3:03:58 GMT -5
I'd say you've got to get that cow milked out as much as possible and as soon as possible. And if it were me, I'd be giving the calf only just enough from a bottle to make it hungry, but only after you've milked the cow out and got those teats more comfortable and smaller.
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Post by kansasdexters on Jun 28, 2011 5:55:30 GMT -5
Wanette,
After you get the cow milked out, rub some glycerine onto her teats. Those teats are looking overly dry and if they develop cracks, that will make them sore and susceptible to flies and infection. Try to keep them as clean and soft as possible. The glycerine will soften and protect the skin and it's odorless and has a sweet taste, so the calf will be encouraged to suckle.
Patti
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Post by Star Creek Dexters on Jun 28, 2011 6:35:34 GMT -5
Sorry, Wanette, when I said milked out, I meant by the vet. Yes, I think Clive and Patti both gave you great advice. I would definitely get her milked out often right now, and after she is down, let the calf nurse. Not sure how do-it-yourself ya'll are, but I'm gonna send you some stanchion plans. It might make all the difference in the world to be able to milk her in an inclosd area.
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Post by wanette on Jun 28, 2011 7:04:17 GMT -5
I'll call vet today and see if I can get her in tomorrow for a milk drain. I hadn't really thought about her chapped teats, was putting bag balm on so I guess I better get back to doing that. Hope calf starts nursing soon, this is getting old and kinda expensive for replacer.
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Post by otf on Jun 28, 2011 8:07:40 GMT -5
Wanette, the calf is a week old now? Can you arrange some sort of space in which to restrain this cow so that she can be safely milked out and then nursed by her calf? Corral panels are an economical option if you don't have a chute/headgate.
Good milk replacer IS expensive and not the best option for a calf; nobody can raise it like its mother can.
If you can't get the calf onto the mother, then consider getting advice from your vet on drying this cow off. To continue taking her to the vet's every other day or so seems absurd to me, if you aren't able to get the calf on her after she's milked out.
Yes, her teats are dry and cracked, ditto on Bag Balm or glycerine.
Sorry if this seems harsh, but I really do think you need to move one way or the other on this.
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Post by dexterfarm on Jun 28, 2011 11:00:12 GMT -5
The udder is normal. It is the teats that are large and cone shaped. This is not an uncommon trait in dexters. I have seen many like this that were able to raise calves with out issue. I think the issue may be the calf just is not getting strong enough to suck. Is there someone You can get some raw cows milk from for the calf?
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Post by cddexter on Jun 28, 2011 12:31:23 GMT -5
I think Clive is right on the mark. I've seen some pretty bad 'ice cream cone' teats. Get the cow confined. If you have to, tie her leg(s) back so she can't reach you, and take the worst of the pressure off all four teats. The calf probably wouldn't be nursing from more than two at this stage, so keep at least the front two PARTIALLY drained if you can. Don't bottle feed the calf, let her nurse from those two front teats after you're done. If she's still hungry, she can have a go at the rear ones, too. It won't take more than a few days, a week at most, until this is all behind you.
Poor teat muscling is inherited, so I'd strongly suggest looking for a bull whose dam has a great udder with really good teats, and use him on the cow, and if you keep the heifer, ditto her when she's old enough to breed.
It doesn't help that the cow looks to be a shortleg, as the calf will have to bend down a lot further to latch onto the teat.
This is one trait we really don't want to be perpetuating if we can help it. regards, carol d.
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Post by wanette on Jun 28, 2011 17:56:37 GMT -5
Thanks for all the input and this is current situation. Patti has put me in touch with a gentleman in OK whom I'm taking cow to, he will try to train her to milk and breed her to his long legged bull. Thank you so much Patti. Calf is going to stay home and bottle feed, hoping other cow will take her when she has her calf, they are staying in same pasture. I don't believe this calf will ever nurse this cow, it's just too much work, it almost wouldn't take the bottle last night because I had a new goat nipple. Wish I had a place to buy fresh milk I would have taken my cow there and begged them to milk her out, so for now I'm doing all I can with milk replacer and a bottle. wish I knew someone with more experience and was closer, we tried tying her back leg back and it was a horrible experience which I will not repeat. If we keep this cow we are looking at building a stanchion or a chute because she will need some milking with each calf. Just curious otf, how would you use corral panels? I do have a few and are planning on building a new corral with panels. Since I'm new to this breed and reg. animals, how would you go about researching for traits? Is that ? answered somewhere I can access? I don't know anything about the line of my bull, or the cows either. Boy, this has been trial by fire, I just wanted easy care cows to clean up the extra pasture and have some beef. Everyone here has been very helpful and supportive, thank you. As you can tell we were not prepared for this in any way and I really appreciate everyone cutting us some slack, this cow is finally getting the help she needs and I'm learning alot quickly.
Wanette
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Post by wanette on Jun 28, 2011 19:23:57 GMT -5
Genebo, I understand what you are saying, and for a novice it is easy to say a cow is a cow is a cow until you run into what I have. I'm not saying anything about "linebreeding" but that is what the previous owner was doing. So shortly I will have to make some other difficult choices about what to do with these cattle, I do not have alot of money to put into more cattle but might be able to purchase a young bull this fall, what to do with old bull? Might be able to replace a cow next year, what to do with old cow? What should I do with this years heifer that carries these undesirable traits? Not opposed to the freezer but that can be hard with a bottle baby. I have this cow's mother and she has no issues with udder, very nice teats, has been used in show and as milk cow so did udder problem come from bull? Which I also have and he sired current calf.
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Post by cddexter on Jun 28, 2011 22:55:34 GMT -5
wanette, don't give up. I suspect you have some emotion invested in this cow, and if like a lot of us, you aren't made of money, eating her isn't much of an option. If you want to sell her on, make sure the next owner knows there might be teat size issues when she calves, and they may have to do some hand milking. Would the person Patti found to help you be interested in a trade?
There are a lot of Dexters that have teats like the one your pic shows, so you aren't alone. At least the udder attachment looks pretty good. Maybe Patti would let you buy a couple of her Galaxy AI straws. You could also try Magician, another longleg bull with outstanding udder and teats. Both had beautiful teats and terrific udder attachment and lots of milk behind them on both sides of the pedigree, neither is a dwarf, and both also have a really deep body and great length.
As Gene says, it's going to take until the second lactation for you to determine if the calf has a good udder. In the meantime, check the calf underneath to see if the udder folds look like they are well attached, and also check the teat size and shape. You may be able to see a difference between the calf's teats and the cows'. If so, then the calf inherited the teats from the bull, and you can check out his dam's udder to see what the calf is going to be like.
I'm so sorry you've had these problems. I just hope it doesn't put you off the breed. Maybe once the cow gets more comfortable with you handling her, and you get more comfortable hand milking, you'd be able to milk her out on a regular basis.
You can create a quickie chute by attaching a 6 foot gate two feet away from the corner on any fence or barn corner. Tie the cow in the corner, swing the gate against the cow, hold it place with a rope tied between the gate and the long wall, and voila: a 2 x 6 chute.
Feel free to email me at any time if you think I can help. carol d.
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Post by otf on Jun 29, 2011 8:05:46 GMT -5
What Carol D. is describing is similar to a Medina Hinge, kind of what I was proposing with the corral panels. It's a quick and cheap alternative and might just do the trick for you, Wanette. You can google "Medina Hinge" and get an idea from photos.
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Post by wanette on Jun 29, 2011 16:50:11 GMT -5
I have spent some time today learning how to look at pedigrees. Why? Because I made a phone call to a guy who has off spring from my bull and found out that he is positive for PHA & Chondro so he is going to slaughter as I don't want him used for breeding. I'm in the market for a bull. Kimberly sent us plans for a stanchion and hubby said he could make one easy peasy, so we will have a milking stanchion when cow returns from milking training. Calf is trying to nurse from grandma cow so if she will hurry up and calf it looks like that issue will be resolved. Thanks to everybody for their input, this has been interesting and I've learned that I have alot to learn.
Wanette
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