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Post by Olga on Jan 11, 2013 12:03:47 GMT -5
Mike just called me and their cow is trying to deliver a full term bulldog calf. I think she's a 1st time heifer. They are seeing the tongue only. My vet has told me that a good grab point on the head are the eye sockets. Any experience with helping a bulldog out? They may be able to get a vet out, but it wouldn't be "immediate" due to location. I would appreciate any info from anyone who has experienced a bulldog birth.
FYI: the whole herd was purchased after the breeding of this heifer had occurred.
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Post by hamonsdexter on Jan 11, 2013 12:28:45 GMT -5
let us know how this turns out
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Gorignak
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Post by Gorignak on Jan 11, 2013 12:59:59 GMT -5
2nd day of real labor.....she is in top shape and I'd hate to be going 10 rounds with her, 'cause she is getting up and down and contracting steadily. She is still real strong.
Saw the tongue about an hour ago......yellow/pale......looks like every picture of a Bulldog I have seen.
WE HAVE BEEN WITH HER EVERY 1/2 HOUR DURING DAYLIGHT AND EVERY 2 HRS AT NIGHT......NEVER A SIGN OF THE SAC OR ANY PROGRESS OTHER THAN A SLIGHT CLEAR/YELLOW DISCHARGE.
She dropped about 4 days ago, and went slab sided yesterday morning.
Her beautiful udder is ready to burst...we will hand milk and save Colostrum for the future.
NMF......This is the last hurdle in our "acquired" situation...... We will AI with "long" bull semen. I have 2 short, and 1 long cows/heifers now.
Eating lunch and back down the pasture............12 Noon
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Post by laughingllama75 on Jan 11, 2013 13:56:31 GMT -5
Good luck, praying things work out ok for your cow.
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Gorignak
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Post by Gorignak on Jan 11, 2013 14:04:31 GMT -5
Thanks Olga......Hans called.....I'm probably in uncharted waters. He has never seen a full term bulldog.....I believe that is what we have. Alana slid her hand in and felt a round head with no discernible snout. Just behind the head was a very short stub with what felt like a hoof on the end. Lots of tongue out front. She is straining hard with no progress since 10 o'clock AM. I have a vet arranged for 5 PM. Thanks Olga....Patti, and Hans....Any experience will be appreciated. I have been relaying to my daughter, but if any of you have words of wisdom....i will put her on directly. We have done our homework on problem births and incorrect presentations. Hans suggested feeling for the legs.....indicating a mis-presentation ......it does not seem like they are there......BUT......we could be doing something wrong. Hans thought that a bulldog should be small enough to be delivered with no problem......WHAT is the largest that a bulldog can be at full term ? The phone # will get us in the field......
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Post by Cascade Meadows Farm - Kirk on Jan 11, 2013 14:12:43 GMT -5
If you have a vet on the way, even if several hours away, I wouldn't be too panicked since the calf is already worse than dead. If the mom is strong, she should be fine.
This might seem insensitive, and I hate to say it, but my personal fallback plan in ANY BAD situation like this, is to consider humanely culling the mom and putting her out of her misery, rather than to continue passing this potential for problems to subsequent generations.
Nothing will go to waste because the meat will be fine so it's an emotional loss, but not a waste of resource.
Being physically and emotionally prepared to quickly cull animals in a crisis, is a HUGE STRESS RELIEVER on our farm because we are ALWAYS prepared for the worst case. Death can be a friend to those in agony.
In the case of livestock it's usually good for the breed, in the long haul, to cull moms that have genetic issues leading to birthing problems.
So perhaps in this case, the vet will arrive with a solution, but culling is a good back-up plan. I wouldn't let the vet do the culling because he'll taint the meat with an injection. I'd use a gun and a knife.
Sincerely sorry for your trouble,
Hope it works out ok for you
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Post by dexterfarm on Jan 11, 2013 14:38:52 GMT -5
no experience with bulldogs but I have delivered breach jersey calves. using gloves makes it really hard to get a hold of any thing. I never used any type of puller. just pulled by hand. putting continuous pressure on and when you feel mom push put a little more pressure and dont let it go back in when she rest. If she starts standing she will probably go down during the middle of it just keep a hold as she is laying down if you can
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Gorignak
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Post by Gorignak on Jan 11, 2013 14:47:45 GMT -5
Up to the house for some apples and water.....fingers in the eye sockets and pulling with each contraction. The description of what my daughter feels is all bulldog.....short snout, huge tongue, large round cranium, truncated legs. She says it is somewhat larger behind the neck.... not larger than the head....but larger than tapering to nothing....
CAN'T POSSIBLY BE PHA "WATERBABY" We are tested PHA free....... so......
Still appears to be full term bulldog calf.
To be Continued...................
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Post by Cascade Meadows Farm - Kirk on Jan 11, 2013 15:17:58 GMT -5
By the Way, for those who don't know what a "BULL DOG" is.... It's Chondrodysplasia (Chondro) 1 copy of the defect gene = Chondrodysplastic Dwarf due to a defect in the cartilage 2 copies of the defect gene = Double defect = Horribly disfigured dead calf that can kill the mother in some cases. PS. They usually abort in the 7th month, but sometimes go full term... The picture above is full term and DIFFICULT (or impossible) for the mom to push out.
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Post by lakeportfarms on Jan 11, 2013 16:08:15 GMT -5
Just a little update after talking with Mike, who will be posting more information later along with some photos...
The next step is to try a noose out of a thin poly rope to try to get around the neck to assist. Mike was going to let the vet do this since he will be arriving shortly. Hopefully that will work but if not the calf will probably have to be cut up and removed.
Mike said the heifer is a dream to handle through all this. For that reason I disagree with Kirk on the culling aspect. As we all know severely affected chondro calves can be avoided. Mike knows this and will be doing AI to a small non-carrier bull . Since this heifer has such a nice temperament and is so young it would be a shame to cull her on the basis that she is a chondro carrier alone. There is also a chance of some infection starting that can be easily contained with a short course of antibiotics. But I wouldn't take the chance and eat the meat at this point since the calf may have been dead for a while.
I'm sorry Mike and his family have had a difficult time with this calving, no doubt it's been tough.
Another comment about culling...when you are so quick to cull you'll also miss out on a lot of hands on learning, which leaves you less prepared for future incidents. As an example, we have a beautiful cow with a great pedigree, that only a little over a year ago we nearly lost due to choking on an apple. We couldn't get a tube to push it out of her esophagus, and ended up twice using a trocar to relieve the bloat. Thankfully we were finally able to clear it before any necrosis set in where the apple was lodged. On Christmas day, she delivered a very nice little bull calf. We learned a lot from that incident and although we're hopeful we won't need to use the experience in the future, we wouldn't have had it had we given up on her so quickly.
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Post by Olga on Jan 11, 2013 16:31:55 GMT -5
I'm crossing my fingers for Mike. Sure hope everything goes well and the mom recovers and they are able to milk her.
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Post by cddexter on Jan 11, 2013 16:49:53 GMT -5
Prayers are a waste of time in cases like this. It's too late for touchy feely and good thoughts. Action is what's needed. All bulldog calves that make it to 7 months or more can be a probelm when it comes to calving. The later, the worse it is.
Mike has already figured out he's going to have to take this calf out by some other means. Eye sockets don't work with a calf this big. A C-section or cutting the calf up and bringing it out in pieces are the ONLY options that are viable. Anything else won't work and just puts extra stress and disease problems on the cow.
Culling isn't necessary. It's not the cow's fault.
This might be a good place to remind people it's good genetic practice, if you really want to keep dwarfs, to breed them to the 'other' kind of Dexter. You still get 1/2 the offspring dwarf, but you don't have this issue to contend with, and you don't lose a whole year's breeding time.
carol d.
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Post by Cascade Meadows Farm - Kirk on Jan 11, 2013 16:50:38 GMT -5
Since this heifer has such a nice temperament and is so young it would be a shame to cull her on the basis that she is a chondro carrier alone. I wouldn't take the chance and eat the meat at this point since the calf may have been dead for a while. Another comment about culling...when you are so quick to cull you'll also miss out on a lot of hands on learning, which leaves you less prepared for future incidents. . I agree with not making a snap judgement to cull (but just being prepared to do so in case you need to), and even I wouldn't be quick to cull her simply because of chondro, until I tried to get a non-chondro replacement daughter out of her. As far as the meat goes, I wouldn't want eat her steaks half raw with blood on the plate, but decently cooked, it would be fine. Cooking well kills everything (except mad-cow disease prions which isn't an issue here). She'd also make fine dog food or pig food.
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Gorignak
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Post by Gorignak on Jan 11, 2013 17:12:32 GMT -5
Bulldog....the vet is sectioning it....head is out and as big as a cantaloupe and fully "developed".
We will have to AI the heifer back to a small calf bull....AND.....watch her closely.
It is a very big calf, and we had to pressure for disassembling it rather than a C-section.
The picture posted by Kirk is appropriate.....I will weigh the total mass and post
OKAY, VET JUST LEFT.....BUCKET FULL of bulldog...will try and keep it less than horrifying.....though....chondro/chondro....thats what ya' get. Vet said she would have not had it.....huge head and bulbous abdomen.....1" legs......lots of hair....FULLY developed. Heifer is fine.....up and we are walking her around. We will milk colostrum tonight and freeze.....
On the "bright" side.....we have a milk cow.
Will post an overview......hooray, I can brush my teeth tonight, I got to wash my face last night ...... we can do the weeks dishes tomorrow. THE DROUGHT HAS DRAINED MY ADJECTIVAL RESOURCES. We are in big,big trouble here.
EVERYONE'S contribution and opinion has been appreciated and valued beyond measure. WE GOT A LOT OF VERY, VERY TIMELY AND VALUABLE HELP......From every corner of the Continent.....
First time for everything......Go figure. I will post a wrapup.
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Post by ctownson on Jan 11, 2013 17:18:46 GMT -5
Best of luck and we look forward to hearing the outcome
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