Question about Changing Feed

[zephyrhillsusan]

I have a question about changing feed.  Mainly for my one cow, I'm switching to a higher protein feed.  I was using all-grain, but it's only 8% protein.  The new feed is similar to all-grain with a bit more ground up stuff, but it's mare and foal feed (the only thing I could find that didn't have animal fat in it) and is 16% protein.  Both cows are in their second lactation, one with a three month old calf and one with a 1 1/2 month old calf.  It may sound stupid that I'm just now figuring out how to transition to a new feed, but that's because we've never grained any of our cattle before this year except a bit as a treat. I used alfalfa cubes last year for the cow I milked, but since her bout with mastitis I'm avoiding alfalfa. My cow did fine last year, and the steer we butchered had a nice fat layer on just grass and hay.  However, I have a new cow that I think could use some more weight, and both cows are now in their second lactation, plus we have a couple more animals on the pasture now.  So that's why I'm changing feed.

My goal is to get the one cow up to a total of 3 pounds a day of 16% feed (feeding for 1 gallon of milk production using the formula of 3 lbs. of grain per gallon of milk produced).  For the other cow I want to get up to 6 pounds a day (feeding for 2 gallons of milk production).  Then I'll see how they do and whether they need more.

So much for the background; here's the question:  I know you're supposed to change feed gradually, but what rate is gradual?

Since the protein is actually doubled, I cut back to half the amount they were getting.  Where do I go from there?

I was thinking I'd increase 1/4 pound and then feed that amount twice a day for two days.  That would be a total increase of 1/2 pound a day for two days.  Then go up another 1/4 pound per feeding for two days.  At this rate it would take 6 days to get one cow switched from 2 pounds a day of 8% to 2 pounds a day of 16%. It would take 10 days to get the other cow switched from 4 pounds a day of 8% to 4 pounds a day of 16%.  Is that too fast?

The complicating factor here is that we're leaving on an unavoidable trip on Friday and will be gone 9 days, so I want to pre-measure all the feed and have it in labeled 1 gallon zip lock bags for my daughter.  I'd appreciate any input you all have!

[carragheendexters]

Susan, I would take longer to transition to the new feed. Over here they recommend that you take 3-4 weeks to introduce cattle to a grain ration or to transition to a new feed. It is also recommended to transition when changing to a new batch of the same feed.
2 days wouldn't be enough time for the rumen to adjust to the changes. We allow 4 days for each new increment of feed.
It isn't the protein level that you have to worry so much about but the carb levels. That is where it can affect the rumen bacteria, they can produce too much acid from metabolising carbs.
Can you leave the changeover till you get home or keep it at the same ratio mix of the 2 feeds till you get back? Say, if you got up to one dipper of this feed and one dipper of that feed. easy for your daughter to do. then continue the changeover once you got back home again.

Good that you are changing feed, 8% protein is very low for a lactating cow. The fact that the new feed is ground up means that you need to transition even more carefully, ground up grain is more risky for acidosis than whole grain.

Do your cattle feeds in US have animal products in them? Our ruminant feeds here in Oz have to be free from animal products. They have to have the disclaimer written on the bag. You cannot even legally buy meat-meal any more, I used to like to give it to my chooks for extra protein. Even chook food is grain only nowadays, not allowed to have meat in it. Following the legal requirements and regulations, we used to have to store chook feed separate to cattle feed, and to ensure that the cattle couldn't get access to it.
They think feeding animal products to cattle is how BSE came about.
Sorry, I was digressing LOL

[zephyrhillsusan]

Thanks, Louise and Genebo! What I hadn't mentioned was that I took fecals into the "old" vet this morning (the one that didn't believe Siobhan had mastitis even with a test result from the Univ. of TN and the one that said to ignore the bloody stools in our calf). Both fecals were negative, btw. While I was there I asked him about the rate of transition going from 8 to 16% protein, and his advice was that to get up to 8 lbs. a day he would take 2 weeks. Something was niggling in my brain that I should ask you all for advice here. Good thing I did, because my plan above was a slow-down from HIS plan!

Louise, I love clear numbers like allowing four days for each increment of feed. And that's a great suggestion to hold off on any changes till we get home. Unfortunately, I had run out of the old feed over the 4th of July weekend--very irritating time to run out! I'll get a bag of the same 8% tomorrow (I won't be able to transition that, unfortunately) and follow your half-and-half suggestion since I already fed them some of the new this morning and this evening. I'll have the rest of this week to observe them on that mix and be sure they're okay. Then I'll just have our daughter feed that and I'll wait till we get home to start phasing out the 8% and phasing in more 16%. Four days per change--I can remember that!

Yes, unfortunately, many of our cattle feeds here in the US have animal products in them. So do many poultry and pig feeds. I HATE that! Pig feed here contains pork products! That's why our pigs ate the vegetarian chicken crumble, and the only meat they got was non-pork scraps from us along with anything they rooted up in the pasture. I had read the same research that feeding ruminant products to cattle is where BSE came from. Apparently we haven't learned anything here!

Gene, the idea to put probiotics in the grain is a good one. I'll still mix up the bags for my daughter (she likes things clear-cut!) So I can put a dose in each bag. Our co-op here is not an SSC; we also have Tractor Supply and a private feed company, which is where I found the feed I got. TSC has the all-grain which I was using for the very reason that it doesn't have animal products in it, until I realized it was only 8% protein and not even 12% as I had thought. The co-op has a dairy ration, but it contains animal fats so I didn't want that. I had to laugh when the feed guy I got the mare and foal feed from said that horse feed isn't allowed to contain animal products. BUT cattle feed can? We don't eat horses here, but we do eat cattle. Like I said, we didn't learn anything from the mad cow fiasco!

I've never seen molasses tubs here, although someone might be able to order me one. The feed does have some molasses in it, and I'll for sure add the probiotics.

And yes, they have hay. I just came in from putting out a new bale.

Thank you all for the really helpful advice. So much clearer than "gradual transition."

[zephyrhillsusan]

Deleted double post.

[outofthebox]

We use lick wheels for molasses but only buy the fortifed molasses without urea.
Fortifed molasses is a balance of simple and complex carbohydrates blended with a balance of minerals and vitamins.

The lick wheels stop birds/insects from drowning and also stops any 'piggy-moos'' from slurping it down.

[carragheendexters]

What? Horses can't be fed animal byproducts but cattle can? That is just crazy. You're right Susan, just how many horses do you eat over there? I know you have a fairly large horse meat export trade, but you guys don't eat them over there do you?
As an aside, it is illegal to sell horse meat here in Oz for human consumption. Ours is exported as well. I don't have a problem with horse meat consumption personally, you have to do something with excess horses. I couldn't eat it myself, I hate the look of the dark meat and the smell when it is cooking, I don't eat kangaroo or deer for the same reasons.

I suppose the logic is that there is BSE already in cattle so you can't make it any worse. Do you have scrapie in your sheep over there too?
You see we don't have either in our cattle and sheep so that is why the strict regulations. We have an advantage in the export industry.
Likewise pigs cannot be fed any meat products because of the risk of foot and mouth.

We have had the odd pig for our own use, but it is also strictly regulated. The Rural Lands Ranger has to inspect your premises and where you will be keeping your pig, what you are feeding it etc. You cannot keep pigs near any other animals or where they can be in contact with any other animal's excrement. Also you cannot keep them near fruit trees because of the risk of contact with fruit bats. We have 2 nasty viruses here in our fruit bats, Lyssavirus (related to rabies) and Hendra virus. Very bad viruses, that have caused human deaths with no treatment available.
Pigs can be fed vegetable and fruit scraps, milk, eggs, bread etc along with commercial feed but no swill, no meat products of any sorts.

My concern with feeding animal products to ruminants, yes you have BSE, but what else is hiding out that can be passed into the food chain, that may be worse than BSE by feeding inappropriate feeds to animals.

Here is some Australian information just for a trivia night for you guys over in US. Here in Australia, if you have been living in the UK during the time when BSE first came about until it was well recognised, (I can't remember the exact years) you cannot donate blood for transfusing. Just as a preventative in case it can be transferred amongst humans via blood.

[zephyrhillsusan]

I'll add to your trivia, Louise. If you lived in France during that time, you can't donate blood, either. So I'm out! We were living in France at the time of the BSE scare (we lived there 1990-2001), and I remember flying British Airways at the height of it. They gave us a choice between chicken and beef. My seat mate and I had a good laugh over that one. Did they think we lived with our heads in the sand???

So is it permissible to hijack your own thread?  In case any of you are wondering if your cow might have mad cow disease, here is how you recognize it.

This cracks me up every time I see it, even though that was not at all a funny time!  We read stories in our newspaper of people who actually got BSE and the horrible suffering they endured.  It was nightmare kind of stuff.

I'm not sure if we have scrapie here.  I imagine all the restrictions you have to live with are difficult, but I guess it's the only way to keep yourselves free of all those diseases.  We were in England back in about 2000 or 2001 when there was an outbreak of foot and mouth disease.  We had planned a trip to Cornwall, part of which was staying on a cattle farm, and then a trip to London.  Luckily we planned it in that order.  The day after we left the farm in Cornwall, they closed the county we'd been in because of the outbreak.  Farmers were going broke all over.  It was really tragic.

To get myself back on track, thank you all for the help.  The cattle are all doing great, eating well, eating grain, hay and grass, good appetites, shiny coats, bright-eyed, active, etc.  

[Deleted]

Susan, we use the molasses tub too. The cows love it. The guy at the Ag center told me about it, he said it's better than grain for them. We have them on pasture with the molasses vitamin, mineral tub and they look great. It costs about $100 up here.