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Post by triplec on Nov 8, 2014 12:45:15 GMT -5
Hello
I have watched this board for a while now and not found answers to my questions I have from the seasoned Dexter owners. A bit of back ground for you I have recently purchased my first Dexter cow and a jersey/belted cross heifer. I know it is mixed pair but they were a package deal from a local ad my wife and I purchased our bit of land in 2013 that we were looking for 12 acres with fenced 10 acres pasture complete with small pond, cattle shed with bunks and automatic waterer, and house for a roof over our heads. We are setup pretty nice to start out I think, so we have been adding livestock over the last year. I told her we were going to start small so Dexters. She actually laughed we I showed her Dexters that a local guys raises. I have been around livestock my whole life, graduated Western Illinois University with a degree in Agriculture. The basics I have covered but love to learn new things and always looking for the better way even if it does mean starting with a new understanding of the basics.
I appreciate the modern techniques and plan to use them when appropriate. I also have respect for older ways that are making a comeback in the ways of "modern" homesteaders. My currant goals are to produce a few calves for freezer beef for family. I am trying to do a low input system using a breed that is small using techniques to maximize performance. I am using rotational grazing and winter stockpiling with a multi-species herd of cattle and equine with thoughts of more. My herd has been small enough that not all my pasture is utilized so I have 50/50 spilt on hay baled off of pasture for three cuttings. I have stockpile of hay at the moment so feeding it also in a smaller paddock.
A few questions still remain about raising and finishing Dexters. What is the quickest that a person has raised a calf for butchering? I am talking to a mature weight with proper finish of fat deposits in tail head and brisket. How did you achieve this? Does anyone castrate and implant? Have you finished Dexters with corn silage, by-products or even standing corn? When is the earliest you have weaned a Dexter calf? Are there any fall calving herds? This should get us started.
Thank you for responding.
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Post by RedRidge on Nov 9, 2014 8:40:05 GMT -5
Welcome. Being from IL myself I understand the desire to finish with corn. But no, I have not done it with dexters. This is how we finished the black baldies however I have found time and forage are more profitable here. Given the surplus of corn we had in IL and the shorter growing season i can see why you might consider it.
Castration. I simply band the dexters but when running a herd of all steers together we have been known to short sack the entire bunch for faster growth. Never done implants.
As far as earliest finishing when pushed? That again is an answer for someone else since we grass feed and finish at 24-26 months. Again, these are Dexters and not Angus or black baldies who we could pah and butcher young. It never occurred to us to push a dexter since forage conversion is our main priority with this breed.
We calve twice a year, spring and fall. I prefer fall calving for a variety of reasons. A) running the entire herd together for 90 days over winter is simply easier management than over wintering heifers separately. B) our fall born steers are more profitable because they technically go through only one season of hay and finish on grass as opposed to those born in the spring who finish on a second season of hay.
As far as weaning I know several who wean at 60 days. I do not but apparently there are those who do. I prefer to shoot for 4 months minimum for heifer calves. For steer and bull calves I don't wean until at least 6 months or whenever it's convenient.
Good luck in finding the answers to your questions.
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Post by dexterfarm on Nov 9, 2014 8:54:14 GMT -5
the questions you are asking are about commercial cattle. They do not fit dexters. Maybe a different breed is for you. They simply will not perform as well when pushed as breeds that have been bread for that. When you grain finish you have just eliminated a significant portion of your market. Add implants and now it is commercial beef you just eliminated the rest of your market. Now what you have is no different than supermarket beef and the market is now the lowest price not quality.
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Post by kansasdexters on Nov 9, 2014 9:04:38 GMT -5
Triplec,
We raise and finish our Dexter beef animals on pasture and hay, after they are weaned at 8-9 months old. We keep them with their dams during our worst weather seasons to maximize their nutrition, growth, and development without supplemental feeding. We normally process our grassfed/grass finished steers and heifers between 26 and 29 months of age. We have processed some as early as 17 months of age, that were properly finished on excellent brome pasture, but without confinement or forcing with grain. We do not use implants or sub-therapeutic antibiotics.
If your Dexters are within the breed guidelines for size, then your Dexter cows will typically be 700 to 800 lb cows; and yearling bulls and steers will be around 500 to 600 lb. The two young Dexter steers that we just processed in late October 2014 both had live weights of 560 lb, and had hanging weights of 325 lb ((17 month old steer) and 310 lb (18 month old steer). I'll get their carcass data this coming week, when they are graded and custom cut on Tuesday.
Patti
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Post by triplec on Nov 9, 2014 22:16:10 GMT -5
Thank you for the responses. I hope to learn more about Dexters and maximizing performance.
Maybe Dexters aren’t for me if it means I have to have a narrow minded approach to raising cattle, wearing beads, feed in an all natural way, eat rainbow stew while incents burn playing sitar music. These are also the reason I have not posted on this board. I know I could buy a different breed that have better records, better history of finishing, better outlets for selling extra calves and breed members would look at people raising natural beef as different.. I don’t need a 1400 hundred pound mature animal that does not leave me room for potential expansion of herd with the low inputs I have available. I think Dexters could great fit for me, meaning to feed my family on my land using my resources.
I do see potential to improve performance using all resources available to finish on a mainly grass with supplemental feed resources in less than two years and hopefully in 16-18 months. Implants don’t worry me since the hormones are already found in the same cattle you are raising. I know based on many studies that if used in a castrated steer that is implanted you gain feed efficiency leading to less time on feed and less input into finished product. I don’t plan on using anti-biotics in my feed again following low input for maximizing production. This is the same reason I wouldn’t do a constant pro-biotic feed either. Both of these programs end up with the same concept in my mind a higher ratio of good bacteria over bad bacteria. If cattle are fed correctly this ratio should be a constant. I due plan on using the correct anti biotic for treatment rather than throwing the kitchen sink at them only to find out that it was viral and the shots were useless against the problem. I also know that supplementing corn will help finish cattle quicker and I could barter a couple days work for enough corn to finish a steer. A Dexter will allow me to do all of these with less feed giving me a product that will fit into my freezer.
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Post by emsshamrock on Nov 9, 2014 22:34:50 GMT -5
Hi there triplec,
We finish our steers on a corn based diet. Our steers are generally around 20 months when they head out for slaughter, however we don't get them off pasture until they are over a year old. There is no reason that a Dexter steer cannot be pushed and finished in 16-18 months! I have done it myself when I was in 4H and had a finished steer at 16 months old. He finished Choice. I agree with your philosophy. Don't let anyone discourage you. Do what's best for you...that's why Dexters are great. They adapt! In my opinion, there's nothing better than corn fed beef!
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zephyrhillsusan
member
Caught Dexteritis in Dec. 2009. Member of this forum since Oct. 2013.
Posts: 1,502 
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Post by zephyrhillsusan on Nov 10, 2014 18:48:43 GMT -5
triplec, you initially asked how others raise steers for beef: Three people answered your questions by telling you what they do and also shared their thoughts on some specific things you asked about, such as implants, corn, silage, weaning and fall calving. So I was really quite confused when you replied: It seems like you DID post, and you DID ask "How do you do it?" People took the time to share specific answers your questions. Where did "a narrow-minded approach, wearing beads, eating rainbow stew and burning incense while playing sitar music" come into the picture?
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Post by ladena on Nov 10, 2014 19:01:40 GMT -5
Just because someone else has tried and true methods for reaching their goals does not make them narrow minded.
You know what they say. "There is more than one way to skin a cat".
Feel free to skin your cat whichever way you like.
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Post by hollydzie on Nov 10, 2014 21:23:16 GMT -5
zephyrhillsusan well put...I don't eat rainbow stew, I have never burned incents, and have no idea what the heck sitar music is...LOL. What I have done and do know about are Dexters  . They are wonderful, easy to work with, eat just about any type of brush, grass, weeds etc. and produce delicious tender beef. Mine do this with out any fuss or need for new fangled stuff. That is why I like them. I guess if you wanted to feed them out and implant them with growth hormones and give low dose antibiotics you could do that too... It doesn't seem to make sense to me, but hey like ladena said "There is more than one way to skin a cat". |
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Post by aggieelissa on Nov 10, 2014 21:29:21 GMT -5
"There is more than one way to skin a cat" I agree, the cattle are still going to have a lot of the benefits that draw people to the breed. We currently feed our steers a finishing ration that is typically used for show cattle. I am in the process of adding a grass fed herd, this has been years in the making. I process my steers anywhere between 16 - 20 months of age depending on condition of the animal and season for us. Anyways back to the questions at hand.... Quickest for us was 14 months, we really pushed the steer and needed beef for the freezer. He did not have as much fat as I would like, though my husband still says he was perfect for him. That steer weighed 600 he hung 380. I only wish we could have fed him out longer as I think he would have pushed 900 lbs finished longer. We fed this steer a corn based ratio, he was also on pasture. I castrate all of my non-bull prospects, the intramuscular fat deposits are better on the steers. The meat from bulls is too lean for me. The steers also tend to spend less time knocking heads than bulls do, which means increased gain. I have implanted my FFA show steers (limousin cattle) in the past, I did not see a huge gain from it, so I do not implant my Dexter's. Though it could be done... I just have not tried it in my Dexter's, primarily because I show them and the rules prohibit implants. The show feed that we use is a high corn ration, it works well to put weight on them quickly. The earliest I have weaned a Dexter was 4 months. I prefer to wean around 6-8 months because the animals get a better start. Though I will say if I am eager to start a calf for a show I do not hesitate to wean at 4 months on a solid nutritional program. We calve year round, with that being said I am in Texas and we do not have snow to contend with. I am slowly moving to a more uniformed calving in the spring and fall. Showing really had my breeding schedules all over the map. I hope this helps out! Everyone is different on how they choose to raise their herds. I hope you do decide on Dexter's, they have been a wonderful breed for me! I came from raising limousin cattle, I would not trade my Dexter's for any breed. Good luck triplec, let me know if there is anything I can help you with. |
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Post by kansasdexters on Nov 10, 2014 22:13:19 GMT -5
Here is why we don't force rapid growth through high calorie feeding in confined living conditions:
1. We prefer a finely-grained, finely marbled beef. The only way that we know how to consistently achieve this end result is to allow the beef animals to mature slowly, without supercharging their hormones with implants or feeding them a high calorie grain diet.
2. We want our beef animals to have a comfortable and natural environment to promote their best overall health and development. We don't want to confine them in a small area, and we don't want to have them live in mud and manure like feedlot beef animals typically do. Whenever we keep an animal in a small area, such as during quarantine. or for breeding, we pick up their manure every day. We keep them clean and we keep their living areas clean. We feed them clean hay, no mold or weeds. They drink clean water, from the same source as the water we use in our house. We clean our automatic waterers regularly to assure that our cattle always have clean drinking water.
3. We do extensive genetic testing and marker based selection, to help identify the cattle with the greatest potential for producing well under the environment that we keep them in.
This approach works very well for us and we have developed a customer base over the past 10 years that reserves their beef early in the year, every year. What we do works for us and we're very pleased with the quality of the Dexter beef that we are able to consistently produce. No incense burning or sitar players in this Dexter cattle operation!
Patti
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Post by midhilldexters on Nov 11, 2014 6:40:40 GMT -5
Come on now Patti, admit it, you have worn beads though.
Carol K
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Post by triplec on Nov 11, 2014 14:08:28 GMT -5
I didn't mean to ruffle feathers. I can tell that nobody got the Bob and Tom reference or the CW McCall references. Yes I do think from reading this forum and some of the replies that some Dexter breeders can be narrow minded since I was told there are better breeds for me. I never said anything about "pushing" grain. I never said anything about confinment cattle.
I do know if cattle are fed "brush grass and weeds" and by not providing adequate protein and energy fot growth and maintaince that the daily gain will be less than supplementing with feed.the gain increases with an implant. Implants are not "superchared hormones" but low absorbed doses that are already existing in your own cattle. If wanting a acceptable average gain is considered comercial well I will admit guilt.
I do see part of the problem is that there is a height and wieght restriction for registration with the American Dexter Association website for three year olds. Many breeders here seem to be trying and suceed with these. The old nature verses nurture debate which is not where I want to extend this conversation. I do think that many of the feeding programs I have seen here lack nutrition to maximize the genetic potential. I am curious what other gentic testing is being used. What results are your genetic testing trying to produce? In what enviroment? Have you followed science and tried to reproduce the results elsewhere?
I do think Dexters can be the right fit since they seem to be docile and easy keepers. I have always believed that cows should be small. I have a bit of a motto of "THE SHORTER THE BLACKER ALL THE BETTER". It comes from buying a few cheaper feeders that would bring down the cost per head for the bookkeepers. I have traditionally thought I would have started with an angus based cow herd but with todays markets I don't want to jump in yet. I see all my needs being met with what I found In the Dexter. Now just making it work.
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Post by emsshamrock on Nov 11, 2014 14:26:37 GMT -5
I do see part of the problem is that there is a height and wieght restriction for registration with the American Dexter Association website for three year olds. There are no height and weight restrictions for registration. There are guidelines but not standards. That's a whole new can of worms that I don't want to get into.... |
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Post by marion on Nov 11, 2014 16:08:18 GMT -5
I didn't mean to ruffle feathers. I can tell that nobody got the Bob and Tom reference or the CW McCall references. Yes I do think from reading this forum and some of the replies that some Dexter breeders can be narrow minded since I was told there are better breeds for me. I never said anything about "pushing" grain. I never said anything about confinment cattle. I do know if cattle are fed "brush grass and weeds" and by not providing adequate protein and energy fot growth and maintaince that the daily gain will be less than supplementing with feed.the gain increases with an implant. Implants are not "superchared hormones" but low absorbed doses that are already existing in your own cattle. If wanting a acceptable average gain is considered comercial well I will admit guilt. I do see part of the problem is that there is a height and wieght restriction for registration with the American Dexter Association website for three year olds. Many breeders here seem to be trying and suceed with these. The old nature verses nurture debate which is not where I want to extend this conversation. I do think that many of the feeding programs I have seen here lack nutrition to maximize the genetic potential. I am curious what other gentic testing is being used. What results are your genetic testing trying to produce? In what enviroment? Have you followed science and tried to reproduce the results elsewhere? I do think Dexters can be the right fit since they seem to be docile and easy keepers. I have always believed that cows should be small. I have a bit of a motto of "THE SHORTER THE BLACKER ALL THE BETTER". It comes from buying a few cheaper feeders that would bring down the cost per head for the bookkeepers. I have traditionally thought I would have started with an angus based cow herd but with todays markets I don't want to jump in yet. I see all my needs being met with what I found In the Dexter. Now just making it work. Call me narrow minded, but the idea of implants for Dexters horrifies me. I would not want to eat beef from an implanted animal, and I think you would be losing the type of beef customer that would be interested in Dexter beef. Dexters come in all shapes and sizes. Pick good conformation, solid and not slow to mature breeding stock and you should be well satisfied. You said it yourself.."I see all my needs being met with what I found in the Dexter.." No beads and incense here, just 14 years of having freezers full of the best naturally raised beef one could wish for.. marion |
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. They are wonderful, easy to work with, eat just about any type of brush, grass, weeds etc. and produce delicious tender beef. Mine do this with out any fuss or need for new fangled stuff. That is why I like them. I guess if you wanted to feed them out and implant them with growth hormones and give low dose antibiotics you could do that too... It doesn't seem to make sense to me, but hey like ladena said "There is more than one way to skin a cat". 
