The Dexter Breed - To be or not be, that is the question.

[kansasdexters]

The Dexter breed is a very diverse breed. There are "purebred" registered Dexter cattle that are quite large, relative to the breed guidelines. There are "purebred" registered Dexter cattle that are quite small, relative to the breed guidelines. There are dwarves and there are non-dwarves. There are horned and there are polled (homozygous polled or heterozygous polled or scurred). There are black, red, and dun coat colors. There are recessive white spotting and excessive white markings. There is A1 Beta Casein and A2 Beta Casein and animals that are homozygous or heterozygous. There are PHA-carriers and PHA noncarriers. It's a confusing mix of genetics for any newbie or experienced breeder to comprehend, utilize, and improve on.

For a knowledgeable stock breeder the advantage with this breed is that there is a diverse gene pool to draw from to create the herd of their dreams. For an inexperienced, uneducated breeder the disadvantage is a steep learning curve, lots of mistakes, loss of calves, and "crash and burn" failures. Most "new" Dexter owner/breeders completely fail within 4 years and get out of ownership by dispersing their herds in a fire sale. They don't know enough, they don't do enough, and they don't get enough of a return on their investment to continue any type of a purebred, registered Dexter cattle ownership operation.

How can we change this outcome and improve the future of the Dexter breed?


Patti

[dexterfarm]

I would say this is an issue for all breeds. For that matter not just farming most new businesses do fail. I see the issue is people new to farming. Do not understand that it is a lot of hard work. Farming is not a get rich quick. It takes a lot of time and work to be successful. Many just do not understand or are not prepared for it. The good news some do succeed and stick with it.

[zephyrhillsusan]

I don't know any statistics, but it's possible that there is a large number of get-in-quick, have-to-get-out-quick people getting into Dexters because the cattle are small and seem easily manageable. This could make people think "I can do this" without doing their research, whereas they might be less likely to tackle getting a couple or half-dozen animals the size of Simmentals, for example.

I think one thing we can do to change this outcome is for there to be some easily accessible educational information on the ADCA website where people looking into Dexters will see it. I'm thinking of something like "The 10 Most Important Things to Consider Before Buying a Dexter" or something like that.

I also wonder if there isn't some sort of mentoring program we could set up, perhaps on a regional level. I know that the regional directors are meant to be resource people, but I'm not sure every newbie realizes it or takes advantage of them. Some breeders who sell cattle offer mentoring to their buyers, but not all. Of course people that end up here can get it, but not everyone knows about this forum. Maybe we need a new committee or a volunteer post for people who are willing to answer questions, and when they don't know the answers, refer the asker on to some other source. Every new ADCA member could receive a letter with a list of phone numbers and resources.

I think mentoring has made the biggest difference for us approaching our fifth anniversary of Dexter ownership this December. I've been blessed to have benefitted from the generosity of several different mentors, none of whom were "official" in any way, although I have also called on my regional director on several occasions. I have called a couple people and asked for advice, which has led to a mentoring relationship, but I'm really blessed in that several people have reached out to me, and the relationships have grown into mentoring and friendship, too. I would probably never have dared to bother them if they hadn't reached out to me first!

[midhilldexters]

For me the start has to be something more than a " guideline". Lets stop comparing apples to oranges and get TWO breed standards, one for carriers and one for non carriers. Then, at breed shows, lets enforce the standards.

Some like to blame the Boards of past for just about everything, lets move forward and move forward together. We can't alter what people did and what happened 10, 20,50 years ago, we have argued about these things excessively. I do believe incorrect information should be corrected, we are all responsible to do that.

Lobby the Board and your Director to pass genotyping for females. None of us know for sure if pedigrees from long ago to this day are correct, lets take the guessing game for our youth and future breeders away.

Vote, stand up and be counted, give your time somehow, it's your breed, support it.

Carol K

[kansasdexters]

Carol K,

Most of the Dexters that are exhibited at ADCA shows are immature animals, under 2 years of age. The size guidelines are for mature animals, 3 years and older. Trying to "enforce" a size standard at breed shows might look good for public relations, but it really won't accomplish much of anything, more than what the guidelines already do.

Until the majority of Board members have genotyped the females in their own herds, don't expect any action from the Board to change the requirements for registration and ask for genotypes on females. They can't ask the membership to do what they aren't willing or able to do for themselves. In the interim, it's really up to each Dexter breeder to recognize the importance of doing full parentage qualification and choose to do the right thing to insure the pedigree integrity of the animals that they choose to register.


Patti

[midhilldexters]

Whatever they come up with as a new height standard, and also the age then so be it. I've seen 2 year olds and under at shows that probably exceed the height standard, and weights to. One has to start somewhere. There are a very small minority of people that show, so it would never be a true representation of the breed, but, make an effort if only in a small way.

Just on this forum we have had members with female genotype issues, those odds stink. We either push it, or we don't.

Carol K

[wvdexters]

You have brought up a very important subject Patti. One I think we need to address as a Breed and in our own personal breeding programs. What is a Dexter?? Who even knows anymore?

The answer is simple in my opinion. Read the breed description.... It is WE (the members/breeders) who are making it difficult.

then FOLLOW IT!!

Taken from the ADCA page:


Animal registration with the American Dexter Cattle Association is by pedigree only. Membership is a commitment to support good breeding practices and to breed for the Dexter guidelines and qualities described in this website.

This is the responsibility of each and every member of the ADCA!!!

But are we? .... Diversity is important but it MUST be within the breed guidelines. If it is not, then we are losing the breed characteristics and the Breed itself!! Personal preferences in breeding choices are there, but they must fall within the guidelines. To do otherwise is to CHOOSE to go against the ADCA, its membership, and the Dexter breed itself. The ADCA does not require individual inspection of animals to determine registration eligibility - Instead it requires US (its members) to do so ourselves and to make the correct choice for each individual animal we breed. By taking up and fulfilling our OWN Responsibility not all of the dexters we produce will/should be registered and added to our herd or sold to others as breeding stock.

We are in our present situation because of choices. Members CHOOSE to breed for larger and larger animals, going against the breed guidelines because they find they can. They WANT to. They Choose to allow and breed for traits they desire instead of choosing to stay true to the description of our breed and Breeding responsibly.

NEVER is the answer to changing the breed guidelines ...

Never again..... We have done this far too many times, too many changes ... our breed is becoming lost in these practices.

What is a Dexter?? Sad, but I can't tell from looking at photos I see posted on places like Facebook, forums... or on the ADCA page itself. I can't tell from reading peoples' posts and listening to their stories. I can't tell by looking at the AI bulls available on the ADCA page. I can only tell by Reading and Following the guidelines, and looking at historical photos.

[midhilldexters]

wv dexters, wouldn't the fact that we had a breed standard be better than a guideline? Does the fact that it's just been a guideline for years leave it open to more interpretation by members, thus allowing maybe for the changes you see in the breed?

Carol K

[legendrockranch]

Patti, since you posed the question, what are your thoughts on this matter?

Part of the problem is that our breed is made up of non-professional cattle breeders which in turn reflect what our board members are made up of. The board position is a non-paid job that is thankless. If the board was told to PV and didn't follow up with the request, that particular director should be booted out. I realize that this is easy to say, it's very difficult to find board members, again it's a thankless job and I truly appreciate what they try and do. Perhaps if it was a paid position membership could hold them more accountable. I'm sure I'll hear an interesting response to this comment.

As far as I'm concerned we should be looking and following rules and regulations that other cattle breeds have done for years that are tried and true. We can always tweak them to fit the Dexter breed.

Our breed association is run more like a club instead of a business. We should start at the top with clarifications of the breed and work down as far as I am concerned, but heck I’m just a member.

In the meantime we will continue to have these firestorms and arguments that continually pop up.

Nov 15, 2014 12:07:49 GMT -5 wvdexters said:

What is a Dexter?? Sad, but I can't tell from looking at photos I see posted on places like Facebook, forums... or on the ADCA page itself. I can't tell from reading peoples' posts and listening to their stories. I can't tell by looking at the AI bulls available on the ADCA page. I can only tell by Reading and Following the guidelines, and looking at historical photos.

Comments like this doesn’t help the breed either.

Barb

[kansasdexters]

Barb,

From my perspective, the Dexter breed's genetic diversity may be one of its greatest strengths. This is a very adaptable and versatile cattle breed precisely because it has such a broad genetic base to draw from, within a single breed registered population of animals, even though this is a relatively small population (fewer than 30,000 live animals within all 50 states in the United States).

The task of identifying quality registered breeding stock, culling undesirable or unproductive animals, and utilizing the genetic potential that can be found within the Dexter breed, is the privilege and responsibility of each individual owner/breeder. For the most part, when an owner/breeder fails to meet that responsibility, their herd fails and the animals that were produced during their time as owner/breeders typically don't produce any more registered offspring.

From what I've seen over the years, the wide ranging variability in the Dexter breed (good examples of the range in breed-type can be seen on AI bull web page: www.dextercattle.org/adca/adca_ai_bulls.html ) is exactly what attracts many people to this breed in the first place. The Dexter breed in the United States is a genetic smorgasbord!


Patti

[zephyrhillsusan]

Until the majority of Board members have genotyped the females in their own herds, don't expect any action from the Board to change the requirements for registration and ask for genotypes on females. They can't ask the membership to do what they aren't willing or able to do for themselves. In the interim, it's really up to each Dexter breeder to recognize the importance of doing full parentage qualification and choose to do the right thing to insure the pedigree integrity of the animals that they choose to register.

Patti

Read more: dextercattle.proboards.com/thread/4360/dexter-breed-question#ixzz3JAun3KhG

That's a good point, Patti.  I wonder how many of us even know where our regional director stands on PV?  I certainly don't know, and it never occurred to me to ask--but it has now!  That's something that each one of us can do before we vote next time our region is up for a new director:  Find out where each candidate stands on issues that matter to us and let them know what is important to us.

You're also right that it's up to each breeder to realize the importance of full PV and to do it ourselves, but I will guarantee you that many breeders don't really understand the difference between G3, G4 and G5.  I know cases where genotypes have already been done, but the breeder hasn't seen the importance of getting them to the registrar, so no genotype is reflected on the pedigree page.  I imagine the same holds true for the different levels of PV.

How many breeders would be capable of correctly explaining to someone purchasing one of their animals how to get an animal Sire and Dam Qualified?

The board position is a non-paid job that is thankless.

Read more: dextercattle.proboards.com/post/new/4360#ixzz3JAzCTS00

Barb, I'm sure you're right.  Maybe we as individual breeders need to not only know what our regional directors think, but stay in communication with them--and let them know we appreciate their hard work.  They sure aren't doing it for fame or money, but for love of the breed!  I'm afraid most of them only hear from us when we have something to complain about!  

[kansasdexters]

Hi Susan,

The best way to correctly explain how to get an animal "Sire and Dam Qualified", to a prospective Buyer of a registered Dexter that is offered for sale, is to have the animal "Sire and Dam Qualified" before it is offered for sale to anyone. Then, you will have a copy of the lab report, in hand, the experience that comes from doing the task, and you can properly explain to your buyer what to do. In order to talk the talk, we all have to walk the walk.


Patti

[legendrockranch]

Nov 14, 2014 19:44:20 GMT -5 kansasdexters said:

How can we change this outcome and improve the future of the Dexter breed?

I have tried to express my point of view, I'm not sure I am understanding your own response to your question.

Barb

[kansasdexters]

Hi Barb,

Sorry, I didn't mean to muddy the waters here with my response to your post. From my perspective, as devoted Dexter owner/breeders, we can all improve the future of the Dexter breed by improving the integrity of all ADCA pedigrees (full parentage qualification), and providing resources and support to other Dexter owner/breeders and to youngsters interested in the Dexter breed. The more sustainable, healthy, and productive our own herds can be, the better we can personally provide guidance and examples for this generation and for future generations to come.


Patti

[legendrockranch]

Patti
I 100% agree with your post and thank you. Many, ok some of us (yourself included) are trying to lead the way by already fully parentage qualifying our animals. We're there for newbies and others by phone or e-mail to help them get through their questions whether they buy from us or not.. I very much like zephyrhillsusan suggestion about a mentoring program.
The BIG question is how do we open the eyes of others and the ADCA to see that this becomes a reality and not just another futile effort buy some.

Barb