Full brother bulls

[tonhou]

I am wondering if there is anything note-worthy about full brother bulls? I have older brother who I am very pleased with - general conformation, temperament, A2, non-chondro & non-PHA - and is leaving "chunky", friendly calves.
Little brother is owned by someone else, but may in the future be for sale. He will I assume, have some similar traits, but obviously not identical. Is there anything significant about brothers, or should little brother just be considered another bull with good breeding background who is not really proven in any way until time has gone by and he has daughters?

--Tony

[zephyrhillsusan]

I would think he would just be like any other bull unless the parents were from closely linebred lines. There would be so many genetic variables that one could have inherited, but not the other unless both parents were homozygous for all the same things.

However, that's just my guess, so hopefully someone with some actual knowledge will chime in.

[RedRidge]

If you have tightly line bred, the bulls are likely very similar. In that case, why keep both? Evaluate critically and keep the better one.
If you haven't tightly line bred, both bulls can potentially be very different. Evaluate critically and keep the better one.

That said, I keep way too males. It's a bad habit of mine. ;-)
When breeding and planning breedings (I breed cattle, sheep, poultry and rabbits), I rarely keep full siblings. However, I frequently keep a sire for longer than most (I have a habit of accumulating too many boys). The reasoning is, I feel the need to prove to myself that my breeding program is working and to have insurance and the ability to line breed back.
Any male can be evaluated visually in one day with what you see on that day, but to evaluate his prepotency and true value asa sire you need years. To improve a breeding program, you also have to be willing to acknowledge what "didn't" work, and to be willing to take a step backward to rectify that. You can't take a step backward if you don't keep the genetics to make that possible.
So yes... I'm the queen of "I keep way too many males". But they are normally father (or grandfather) and son, never siblings. If my breeding for a given season accomplishes what I want, the older generation may or may not be needed again. For sheep, I will collect a superior ram for line breeding down the road. I am considering that with one of my bulls right now too (since I have easy access to keep semen), but that decision is a few years premature, I'm just hopeful.
For smaller stock I simply keep a group of what I call retirement gentlemen - sometimes pulled out of retirement, but normally just a life off luxury. For the smaller stock the cost of feeding a few extra mouths is worth it to me.
This is also insurance should something unexpectedly happen to the main herd stud. Loosing a superior male would be double heart breaking if no son existed. I lost a superior MALE CHICKEN last year and had an extremely young son who (thank you Lord), went on to some big wins and was even better than his dad. I got lucky, but if I hadn't kept a son I would have been dead in the water with what is an exceptional line.
We all have our own way of attempting to improve the lines we have, that's simply what works for my over anal brain to accomplish my long term goals.

[kansasdexters]

I agree with Sheri. I would not keep full brother bulls, I would evaluate both and then choose the one with the best vigor, superior conformation and temperament, and genetics. That means testing both for the desired genetic traits (milk proteins, beef profile, color, etc.), keeping health records, birth weight, weaning weight, yearling weight, stature, etc. Even full brothers in a linebred herd will not be exactly identical in performance, there will always be some variation.

We have semen for 24 registered Dexter bulls, spanning the last 40 years of Dexter breeding in the United States and Canada. We can always go back and "rebreed" for the desired genetic traits. We can also test for genetic traits as new tests are developed in the future to determine which of these bulls have the most desired genetics to pass on to their offspring.

Patti

[ladena]

Sheri, so sorry for the loss of your superior penis,lol.

[kansasdexters]

It's that darn autocorrect on this Proboard. It won't allow the word she used without changing it. Try using rooster next time Sheri. Too funny!

[RedRidge]

OMG, I'm gonna have to go back and reread but I suspect my husband would be offended. Love autocorrect, NOT!
FWIW, using the word rooster in the poultry world is a sure fire way to NOT be taken seriously. ;-)

[RedRidge]

Too funny, it would not let me correct to the correct word... so male chicken it is. I call my female dogs bitches also. We all knew I wasn't very PC but gosh...
BTW, my husband is still laughing hysterically! Glad I could supply everyone with their Sunday entertainment. ;-)

[zephyrhillsusan]

I was wondering . . . I just assumed we were still talking about cattle and that you have everything else fine-tuned the way you want it, so you can weed your herd sires out on the basis of their, uh, shall we say, finer points?   ETA:  You know, kind of like we nurses used to say "the appendix in Room 502," you just referred to your bull by his superior quality!