Just how undesirable is the scur gene in polled cattle?

[kozzy]

"Steve" is 15 months old now and seems to have developed a bud on one side thats a bit bigger than a marble at this point. Technically he's polled. I found a good genetics explanation (attached) describing that the gene for these unattached scurs is sex-linked and not related to the polled/unpolled genes.

www.limousin.co.nz/Items%20for%20Technical%20Page/UnderstandingtheScurredconditioninPolledcattle_000.pdf

So the question becomes...how "bad" is this gene in terms of breedability? I've had a few friends express interest in Dexters as a possible choice for their own meat cattle and they were getting serious about the choice now that I had a bull available. I don't mind "crappy" stock for my own use--and never intend to sell or breed for quality stock--but I also don't want to spread crappy or problematic genetics around so they end up in someone else's stock unknowingly. Most people who've seen Steve say he's got great conformity but this one issue cropped up...

So how big a detriment is the possibility of having a scur gene in a bull? Something to insure stays "in house" (he's mostly pasture pet) or no big deal and pretty common?


If it was anything but the tight-knit genetics of the Dexter world, I doubt anyone would care but....

[cddexter]

kozzy,no big deal. Until we had polled, no Dexter owner was even aware there was a scur gene. Like anything in a perfect world, it would be preferable not to have scurs, but there's no dreadful downside. cheers, c.

[Cascade Meadows Farm - Kirk]

I used to love the scur gene because it was useful to help me make a good guess if the animal was heterozygous polled, vs homozygous polled. A polled animal can only have scurs if they are heterozygous polled (they have one polled gene and one hidden horned gene). But now that we have a homozygous polled dna test, it isn't useful anymore.

[zephyrhillsusan]

kozzy, this is a "bravo" to you for asking!  It's incredibly responsible of you to realize that using your bull for other herds will spread his genetics around.  We need more breeders who really do care about what that does to the small Dexter genetic pool, so thank you.

The only thing I would caution you about is if you are going to use your bull to breed your friends' herds, be very aware of the possibility of spreading disease.  All of your friends who plan to use him should be sure to test and vaccinate their cattle for various diseases like Brucellosis (Bangs), unless they come from a Bangs-free state.  (Many states require heifers to be vaccinated before they are 1.)

You and your friends should practice good quarantine any time animals are moved between farms.  When we bought our bull calf, his breeder told us to keep him isolated for three weeks (except for a steer for company), not even any nose-touching through fences, removing all manure and bedding to an area where it wouldn't contaminate pastures, and disinfecting the water tub and manure forks when quarantine was over. 

Here's a list of some diseases that can cause abortion in cattle and can be spread between animals.  If all of your friends test and vaccinate and keep closed herds, that would be great, but if any of them have cows that get out or neighboring bulls that get in, their herds would no longer be closed--and neither would yours if their cows come to visit.

Hopefully someone else has helpful suggestions in this area, especially for a list of specific things to test and/or vaccinate for.

[cddexter]

Great article, Susan, and really good advice. For what it's worth, Lepto as far as I know is spread by urine (or sharing breath). Pomona is usually spread by deer. If a cow eats grass that's been pee'ed on by a deer, or drinks water from a stream or puddle that a deer has pee'ed in, there's a good chance the cow will become infected. Most dangerous period is about 6-8 months into gestation when it causes abortions or still born calves., otherwise she becomes a carrier--just as bad for the future. Harjo is spread by rats: they get into grain bins, eat and pee, the grain gets used for cattle feed (haha--and human) and the disease spreads from there; ditto hay.

Not much most of us can do about it without 8' deer fences and poison bait everywhere. cheers, c.

[kansasdexters]

The biggest problem that I see with the scur gene is that many Dexter breeders don't know the difference between horned and polled wih scurs. So, polled-scurred Dexters end up getting registered mistakenly as "Horned" and they are not horned, they are polled (but scurred).

[zephyrhillsusan]

Hopefully people will use the polled test to make sure. With genotyping/PV on the horizon, it's not much more to add that test.

[Deleted]

Mar 17, 2015 21:52:47 GMT -5 zephyrhillsusan said:

Hopefully people will use the polled test to make sure. With genotyping/PV on the horizon, it's not much more to add that test.

I am switching our herds sire tests to UCD Davis, I submitted tail hair and wondered if I should do PV, and DNA testing. Or is just DNA testing ok?

[zephyrhillsusan]

Cathy, @cmorey, do the DNA testing. Here's a blog post where I explain it with screen shots to illustrate.  To recap, here are the steps:

• Fill out the animal information at the top.  If the animal isn't registered, leave the number blank; do not write "pending."
• In the "Selected Tests" section, choose "DNA" and any others you want.  (Note that VGL says "DNA;" ADCA says "genotype."  It's all the same.)  There is a $25 charge for a genotype, and the PV is included in that.  
• Click the box next to "Parent Verification."  That will open up a whole new section.
• For "Sire Parent Verification Info," you can choose either "Search my account" (if you have the sire's genotype in your account, usually because you own him) or "Enter name + VGL Case Number" (if you used an AI sire or leased bull from another breeder and they furnished you with the Case Number).
• Do the same for "Dam Parent Verification Info."
• Note that the "New Sire" or "New Dam" button is for the case where you aren't sure which animal is the parent and need to submit a second animal's name to be compared as a possible parent.  There is an extra charge for this service.
• DO NOT fill out the next section, "Parent Information," because you've already done it.
• Fill out the "Owner Information."  Save the test and pay for it.  

Let me know if you have other questions.

[Deleted]

Mar 20, 2015 21:55:32 GMT -5 zephyrhillsusan said:

Cathy, @cmorey, do the DNA testing. Here's a blog post where I explain it with screen shots to illustrate.  To recap, here are the steps:

• Fill out the animal information at the top.  If the animal isn't registered, leave the number blank; do not write "pending."
• In the "Selected Tests" section, choose "DNA" and any others you want.  (Note that VGL says "DNA;" ADCA says "genotype."  It's all the same.)  There is a $25 charge for a genotype, and the PV is included in that.  
• Click the box next to "Parent Verification."  That will open up a whole new section.
• For "Sire Parent Verification Info," you can choose either "Search my account" (if you have the sire's genotype in your account, usually because you own him) or "Enter name + VGL Case Number" (if you used an AI sire or leased bull from another breeder and they furnished you with the Case Number).
• Do the same for "Dam Parent Verification Info."
• Note that the "New Sire" or "New Dam" button is for the case where you aren't sure which animal is the parent and need to submit a second animal's name to be compared as a possible parent.  There is an extra charge for this service.
• DO NOT fill out the next section, "Parent Information," because you've already done it.
• Fill out the "Owner Information."  Save the test and pay for it.  

Let me know if you have other questions.

Thanks Susan, I believe that I did it correctly for our Sire. I haven't genotyped my cows yet at VGL, however I do have tail hair on file, so it shouldn't be to hard to do. Thanks for all your help it's very much appreciated. I did make an error on our calves though, I sent in tail hair for the polled test, since we already ear tagged them I used the USDA number, before registering them.Maybe I can go back into my account and change that. Thank you for taking time to respond to me, I totally understand family time. Cathy

[zephyrhillsusan]

Cathy, if you can't figure out how to change the USDA number to the registration number, call VGL. The techs are very helpful if you need to call them. If your cows have tail hairs there from other tests, just go to the "Add a test to an existing sample" tab.

[Deleted]

Mar 20, 2015 23:37:01 GMT -5 zephyrhillsusan said:

Cathy, if you can't figure out how to change the USDA number to the registration number, call VGL. The techs are very helpful if you need to call them. If your cows have tail hairs there from other tests, just go to the "Add a test to an existing sample" tab.

Susan, I removed the registration number on the calves that my tests are pending, until I register them. I have one cow Indy, that is Genotyped at A&M, G2. (I did call UCD, no answer, and they didn't call me back) anyways, I have her tail hair on file at Davis, should I retest herr for DNA? Sorry to be a pain, it seems like I do things the hard way first and it costs me more $. Trying to do this right the first time. I also have one yearling heifer calf Colette, Indy's last years calf,Genotyped at A&M, I don't have her tail hair on file at Davis. Can Davis acess A&M's files on genotyping? I thought I read somewhere that they can. Thanks for your help. I am looking forward to getting all my animals transferred to Davis.

[zephyrhillsusan]

Cathy, if you want to have your animals at UCD and plan to have more calves from Indy, I would go ahead and pay the $25 to have her genotyped there. That will simplify getting your calves from her PVd at UCD.

You can pay A&M( I think $2) to transfer Colette's file to UCD. However, if you plan to breed her and PV her calves, I'd probably just spend the $25 and send her tail hairs to UCD. Especially since her dam Indy would be there, then you could get her PVd if the sire is there, too.

It's possible that some things may be changing a bit and perhaps getting simpler with the Board of Directors working on the PV issue with both labs. So I suppose you could wait till after AGM and see if there are some changes and clarifications. Or you could just get it done and over with.

[Deleted]

Mar 21, 2015 23:40:15 GMT -5 zephyrhillsusan said:

Cathy, if you want to have your animals at UCD and plan to have more calves from Indy, I would go ahead and pay the $25 to have her genotyped there. That will simplify getting your calves from her PVd at UCD.

You can pay A&M( I think $2) to transfer Colette's file to UCD. However, if you plan to breed her and PV her calves, I'd probably just spend the $25 and send her tail hairs to UCD. Especially since her dam Indy would be there, then you could get her PVd if the sire is there, too.

It's possible that some things may be changing a bit and perhaps getting simpler with the Board of Directors working on the PV issue with both labs. So I suppose you could wait till after AGM and see if there are some changes and clarifications. Or you could just get it done and over with.

Thanks Susan, it makes it harder having my animal testing split between two labs. It's not hard to pull tail hair and send it in. Perhaps that's the route to go. I have the time to get it taken care of this time of the year. I agree in the long run it will make Genotyping and Parent Verification much easier. Thanks, Cathy

[hollyrockranch]

Thank you Kozzy. I loved the article, I have an 11 month old bull that just started doing this, I did not know what this was, I was thinking some kind of warts? The article was so informative. This is what is so great about this Dexter board, so much information to be shared Thank you.