Traditional Polled Dexters

[Cascade Meadows Farm - Kirk]

Here's a traditional/legacy polled dexter and she has some traditional polled descendants

www.dextercattle.org/pedigreedb/ponyweb.cgi?horse=6202

I guess polled IS traditional after all.

I suspect we'll find more and more of these in the future unless we make genotyping and parentage verification mandatory

[Olga]

You would think, that if the association makes such a big deal that an animal will not be registered as red unless tested, that no animal with two horned parents will be registered as polled unless tested as well. Or may be inspected by a 3rd party, like a veterinarian?

[cddexter]

Well, a while back someone had a heifer they put in 4H, and the leader told her the calf was polled. She checked with the breeder, both parents horned. They ended up with the 4H leader, a local vet and a state vet all agreeing the heifer was polled--in writing.

The breeder sent in hair from both parents and the calf and the result came back pv. The breeder then had photos taken of the parents, along with a letter from his vet confirming both had been dehorned. The breeder tried to get the registration changed to polled.

The most experienced Dexter registrar in the world refused to change the registration because the breeder no longer owned the calf, the change had to come from the new owner (figure that one out!). The breeder argued, photos were taken of the calf's head at 12 months, and you could see these 1" long crumpled, folded over bits of horn with no horn core. The most experienced Dexter registrar in the world still wouldn't change the registration. She sent an accountant with a few Dexters to have a look, he said it looked horned to him: game over.

Heifer was never re-registered as polled. Later she was sold without papers, and is now lost.

I've always figured it was a genuine mutation, but what do i know.

cheers, c.

[jamshundred]

Name names of the calf Carol. . That is a crock. You are too adept at tossing out "evidence" that is not confirm able. There is yet posts on various chat groups where you said a number of scientists confirmed Esmeralda had to be a mutation. ha. Hope they had their credentials confiscated. . Quote the polled stats all you wish but show me a mutation that is PV proven for TWO generations. That is what it takes TWO. The only case I ever thought had a chance had the calf, the sire and the dam submitted to Potter and the owner told me he requested results repeatedly and never got them. Finally Potter told him it was outcrossed and he still could not get the results he paid for.

Judy

[jamshundred]

Kirk, as to Allies Fling of Grandview. Guess who was gung-ho to get that calf registered as a mutation. If PROOF exists why haven't we seen it? That is another animal in the registry because.....I have been told Davidson threatened to sue ADCA over it. Well Carol? Tell everyone if that is true and why you wanted that animal accepted so badly?

I have also been told a prominent breeder purchased and removed descendants from the breed pool. ADCA leadership has systematically refused to protect or cherish this breed

Judy

[jamshundred]

Ps Kirk. You missed one. Starts with MLW.. That one turned up and again ADCA leadership fails the breed

Judy

[kansasdexters]

It wasn't the ADCA leadership that registered that animal, it was a Dexter breeder. Please put the responsibility where it belongs. If Dexter breeders don't provide the correct information, then some animals will get registered wrong. That particular animal was registered in the PDCA, he is not registered in the ADCA. Since he was genotyped, and his genotype was "on file" with the ADCA, he met the requirement for a registered Dexter bull siring Dexter calves eligible for ADCA registration. It just illustrates that the current requirements for ADCA registration are not adequate to assure an accurate registration. The ADCA leadership is trying to change that - and that's an example of excellence in leadership. Please recognize it for what it really is.

www.dextercattle.org/pedigreedb/ponyweb.cgi?horse=P204727&HorseName=MLW%20Kennebec&Page=1&Sort=0

If that animal had been sire and dam qualified, then there wouldn't even be any discussion or accusations concerning its parentage or pedigree.

Please support mandatory genotyping of females, so that the ADCA can become a more accurate Dexter cattle registry. Please stop these types of errors before they become registry errors - please parentage verify Dexter calves before registration!

[Cascade Meadows Farm - Kirk]

Here's another interesting one that mandatory parentage verification likely would have caught (or would have proven to be a mutation):

dextercattle.org/pedigreedb/ponyweb.cgi?horse=029286

I'm excited that ADCA leadership is smartly facing this head on and they are recommending that we implement full mandatory genotyping of ALL registered calves and that we phase-in full parentage verification. It's very smart and it's a shame that some individuals (direct competitors of the ADCA who already have mandatory genotyping) are trying to sabotage the effort.

[cddexter]

here's the stuff from this board from nov/13. I think it explains Allie. c.

Allie was born in 1992. Platinum's first calves didn't hit the ground in 1994. Very few members of this Board were around then, so while you may get opinions, they will be tempered by hindsight or agenda. Allie was 100% Pisgah breeding. Gary Pritchard (Pisgah) kept other breeds in the same single large field as his Dexters. It was a common misconception among Dexter owners of the day that the senior bull in the field would always be the sire.

In the case of Allie, breeder didn't pay attention, purchaser tried to get her registration changed to polled when she was already a mature cow. Registrar wrote the Board for direction. Issue was discussed by the Board, but the bottom line was there was no requirement to require proof of parentage (at that time, the ONLY requirement for registration in the ADCA was that the owner represent the calf as being from the parents he or she listed as such on the registration form, said parents having to be registered either in the ADCA or a recognized other international association). So legally ADCA had to allow registration. This case did, however, cause the Board to put into place the right to ask for parentage verification for anything suspect, in the future.

Edited to add: Allie was already registered years earlier. It was only when the new owner wanted to show her as polled that any of this came to light.

[cddexter]

Oh, and Judy? I'd really appreciate a more polite form of communication. Thanks, c.

[lakeportfarms]

May 11, 2015 17:39:00 GMT -5 Cascade Meadows Farm - Kirk said:

Here's another interesting one that mandatory parentage verification likely would have caught (or would have proven to be a mutation):

dextercattle.org/pedigreedb/ponyweb.cgi?horse=029286

I'm excited that ADCA leadership is smartly facing this head on and they are recommending that we implement full mandatory genotyping of ALL registered calves and that we phase-in full parentage verification. It's very smart and it's a shame that some individuals (direct competitors of the ADCA who already have mandatory genotyping) are trying to sabotage the effort.

When we owned and registered him and last time I looked he was correctly identified as horned.  The owner contacted me last year asking how to get a replacement certificate, for he (thought) he had a prospective buyer.  The "prospective buyer" wanted to try out the bull for a couple of months to make sure he could breed his cow before he paid for him.  I knew who the "prospective buyer" was and knew how he operated...Paul was a cheapskate (using nice words).  Thankfully he's finally run out of suckers and no longer owns Dexters.  He had tried to pull the same stunt on us several times.    I warned the owner he was being scammed...to no avail of course because he still owns Luther according to the pedigree.

Pure and simple, this is a registrar error.  It may have occurred during the interim between Chuck and Jill when Luther was transferred, I can't recall.  

When we first purchased Mike back in 2005, his paper pedigree said he was polled.  We corrected it when we joined the ADCA and transferred him a few years later.  No amount of genotyping is going to prevent errors such as this.


What would fix errors like this, is a requirement that all polled Dexters be proven by requiring a test result for homozygous and heterozygous, just like a color test is required for red if one of the parents isn't registered as red.  It is available now as you all know.  If you want obligate status for polled, one of the parents has to be homozygous for polled, and unless you can prove by a test that your calf is also homozygous, a test will be required for any of that animal calves to claim polled  for their calves.


In our brief foray to the 6 or 8 polled Dexters that we had.  I was registering two calves (not of our breeding) as horned.  This was prior to the test availability.  Both parents were polled, yet I was still doubted (I even argued a bit about it) when I said the calves were horned, and they were registered as polled. Both were finally corrected a year or two later when they were transferred.

[Pinevalleydexters]

I have to agree with the polled, horned test for registering, we have to test for so much why not add another requirement. Perhaps it shouldn't be left up to the breeder. I test all of my animals for polled. That way when we have to dehorn we do it young. We don't have horns on our farm, that's why I like the polled animal. We don't have to dehorn. I have nothing against people having horned Dexter's. My husbands Grandpa was gored by a horned bull, not a Dexter, so no horns here. When we started out with Dexter's I wasn't even aware of the big argument between horned Legacy vs our polled animals. I think a lot of people feel as we do about horns on a very small farm. No offense horn people, your animals are beautiful. Just adding my two cents for what it's worth, from a Dexter breeder that has only been around since 2012.