A new chondro or non -chondro and please critque my heifers

[christy461]

I have been gone from these forums for a while, and just can't remember where I left off! People have been so helpful with my Dexter heifer mess ups. I'm STILL trying to get something going with these two.

Anyway, guesses anyone? I'd also like conformation critiques if you can. These are coming 4 yr.old heifers (I know, we ran into a lot of trouble and they have not been bred), not registered now, but will be. The polled one is not completely shed out and should be, and I'm thinking worms, maybe?

[simplynaturalfarm]

Could be worms, could be mineral deficiencies - they certainly are not skinny.
I personally would try to get them bred before registering them - an open 4 year old who hasn't had a calf might have laid up a fair bit of internal fat and not so easy to get bred. After you confirm them bred, then see about registering them

AS far as chondro or non, best way is to test

[zephyrhillsusan]

As well-filled out as they are, I would guess mineral deficiency before worms. I don't know where you are, but we have copper deficient soil in our area and I started ours on a 6% copper mineral that is specifically formulated for our area, which although we're in NW GA is considered Appalachia. It has really made a difference. Kelp might help, too, if they will eat it. One of mine grew up with kelp and eats it straight with her feed, but the other one refuses to eat feed if it has kelp in it. No amount of molasses will help.

I second Simplynaturalfarm's advice on breeding before registering. When I took my first heifer to be bred there was a "well-built" 3 year old Dexter heifer there who was on her third attempt at live cover without success. The bull was definitely fertile; his owner's assessment was that the heifer was too fat to take. Of course there are other possibilities, too, that a vet could investigate and/or test for. Do you have access to a bull?

And yes, I'd pull tail hairs for the chondro. You don't have to genotype, you can just test for chondro to know what to do about breeding. Then if they get bred, you can genotype and test for anything else you want and then register them. I can sometimes tell with extremely "typey" chondro carriers that they are positive, but it's much harder to say animals are definitely non-carriers, IMO, because there are some very proportionate carriers.

I'm glad you've gotten some help, and I hope you get these girls bred.

[simplynaturalfarm]

Yes, I thought copper also, but it is an easy thing to over diagnose when you see extra brown tinged hair - all my blacks look like that when shedding.
I've had to butcher 3 older heifers that would not get bred because I waited too long, so I would not want you to put too much expense into it until you are sure they are bred.

[Pinevalleydexters]

I am not good at guessing Chrondo either. I agree with Susan pull tail and test then you will know for sure. As far as breeding at four I have never waited that long either. Ours are bred at 15-16 months.

[simplynaturalfarm]

Did you ever have the vet out - last year in July you said you were having the vet out on Monday to confirm pregnancy and you were going to dna for chondro back then

Life gets away with us for sure!

[christy461]

Thank you for the replies! I didn't need to have the vet out, because she was not pregnant. My mistake for not having her checked as soon as we got her. She was sold as possibly bred (accidentally)at 15 months. Either she wasn't pregnant or she lost the baby somehow, which is possible. We do have heavy iron in the water here, so much so that we have to filter it for the horses. I did read somewhere that heavy iron can cause miscarriages in cattle. THEN, there was the fiasco when we tried to sell them and couldn't get them loaded. She got jabbed a few times by the horned one, and they were both very traumatized by the experience. It was so horrendous, and of course, our fault, that we decided not to sell them and continue with the original plan and breed. In the meantime, we were given the "farm" designation we were trying to get for ever, so we can move forward with the farm, instead of having to replant all the trees we cut.

I never pulled tail hairs, because they are not tame enough to do that, and I don't have a squeeze chute. But I really need to do it, so that's my goal for the near future. I'm trying to trace back and get information about the parents.Parents are registered. Same bull on both, pasture bred.

They are fat - Lucy, the horned one, has lost a LOT of weight, since we extended their pasture to 8 acres. She was OBESE before, much worse if you can believe that. I worry about her even being able to get pregnant. Mineral deficiency sounds like a place to start. They do have a mineral block which they have always liked, but I can certainly do the kind you put on their feed. We are very deficient in selenium, and I think copper is OK. I know iron in the water can affect coat color and give that reddish tone where it should be black. It did that to my black horse - reddish mane, tail and body hair until iron was filtered out of the water. They are now on 100% pasture, but got fat on really good hay and no exercise.

We have a bull, although he is young- 9months, a little red Dexter, who is being delivered this Sat. I wanted to be careful not to breed bad defects, which is why I asked for conformation critiques. I feel it's important to be a responsible breeder and I am striving for that, while honoring our budget. I want to have nice animals come form here - they will not be magnificent, show Dexters, but I would like them to be nicely built and have good temperments. I did get to meet both parents of this little bull and they have amazing, calm, sweet temperments. I was very impressed, especially with the bull(our little guy's dad), who at 5 years old was very docile and loved petting. I fell in love with him!I sure hope this little one takes after his father.

Good idea about breeding first and registering later. Thank you. I didn't even consider that, and it makes total sense. Does anyone see anything horribly bad about these two, that would make breeding them a bad idea? Anything that stands out as being good?

[zephyrhillsusan]

It's always a bit tricky giving a critique just from a photo without being able to discuss things in person and look at the animal, but I'll try. The horned heifer looks to have nice body length, more than the polled heifer. I can't tell if it's just the photo, but you might want to improve on both their toplines for a nice straight one. The photos are small, and when I click on them, they're too large for my little laptop screen, so I'm sorry I can't see enough detail to be more helpful. I don't know about your bull's qualities or breeding, but a good bull can make some improvement in one generation if he has strengths where the cow needs improvement. If you don't get a better animal, Dexters make good eating, especially with the price of beef being so high. Just go into it with a commitment that you won't necessarily sell your offspring for breeding, and wait and evaluate them before deciding. Find someone you can learn from about conformation (it helps if you can do it in the flesh) and keep evaluating your animals and asking lots of questions.

[Pinevalleydexters]

We are low in Selenium in our area too, we use loose minerals they can't get enough from a block. My feeling is you have to start somewhere and you already have your heifers, and you have a bull coming. See if you can get them bred and go from there. As Susan said you don't have to raise breeding stock right away, beef is high. We are always improving our herd, and as another respected Dexter Breeder told me there is no perfect animal. From your photos they look like nice girls to me.

[christy461]

After looking at my pictures,I can see what you mean about it being difficult to critique from a photo.

Lucy, my horned one, has a back as straight as a board, but it doesn't show that in the photo, and we don't have any level ground here, so everything will be off a bit. She also has what I think(after studying all of the udder threads) is a nice udder, but of course since she hasn't been bred, I don't know if that nice udder will produce. She does have nice teats that look like the perfect size for milking, which is one of the things I want to do. I've had milk goats before, but not a cow. We don't need a lot of milk, more doing it for the fun of it. She is not exactly begging to be pet, but will tolerate people around her and will take treats and come when called. She is calm, very smart and really careful of her horns.

Jelly Bean, the polled buffalo -looking one, is the one I'm more concerned about. Her topline isn't straight-I've seen worse, but she can't compare to Lucy. And you just about need a magnifying glass to find her little udder. She's very skittish, and appears to absolutely HATE the way all people smell. I'm hoping the docile bull will help the skittishness in her offspring. He will definitely improve what she brings to the table. Her feet are ok, but then again, Lucy has much better feet. She does LOVE other animals, like dogs and goats who get unlimited cow-lickums, and her claim to fame may be that she is an excellent mother. We shall see.

The plan is to segregate the little bull for a bit in a small pasture between the heifers and our 4 goats. Then we'll just put him in with them and see what happens. He seems really little to me, which I guess is OK, since both Lucy and Jelly are really big and we'd like to breed down a bit. His sire, at age 5, is just a bit shorter than Lucy.

I will be getting the registration info for the little guy, so I can see if there is anyone we know on there.

[jennyacres]

There are some options if your animals aren't cycling. Google cattle synchronizations to get an idea of some of the hormones that can be used. I've used the CIDR and had very good success. We breed via AI only right now because we don't have a bull. I had two heifers that were particularly difficult to get pregnant. The CIDR did the trick. Be certain their nutritional needs are met first, of course. Once, you've had them on minerals for a period try the CIDR. GnRH may be helpful if they're cystic. Your vet can help you with available programs. Note, timing is of great importance when using the CIDR program.