|
Post by cheddar on Sept 26, 2015 14:54:57 GMT -5
My vet suggested I get a protein tub for my heifer. What she suggested was a 30% from Tractor Supply. I also offer free choice kelp and add some Grazers Choice and Fertrell's dairy supplement to that. She goes through the tubs pretty quickly, not so much the loose minerals and kelp. Hoping for your suggestions on a protein tub with less protein that would work for one cow. The 16% that Tractor Supply carries is 200 lb's. Seems a bit much for one heifer :-).
|
|
zephyrhillsusan
member
Caught Dexteritis in Dec. 2009. Member of this forum since Oct. 2013.
Posts: 1,502
|
Post by zephyrhillsusan on Sept 27, 2015 13:52:03 GMT -5
She probably likes it because of the molasses and because the TSC tubs are very soft and easy to eat, which is why she goes through them so quickly. We've used Crystalyx tubs, which are baked and really are just a supplement because they last a lot longer. Crystalyx makes an all natural one, which I'm trying to get, but to do it I have to buy a whole pallet of 12 since our feed store supplier doesn't stock them. But if you can get those, that would be an excellent solution. I would think that 30% would be a lot more than she would need, and it's almost certainly got a lot of stuff like urea or soy or feather meal to have that much protein in it. In addition, you don't want your heifer to get over-conditioned because that can make it hard to get her bred.
|
|
|
Post by legendrockranch on Sept 27, 2015 16:55:23 GMT -5
We have been using the Crystalyx tubs for years. Both the 30 percent "replacement heifer" in 200 pound tubs and the HE 20 percent tubs which weigh 125 pounds. We buy them buy the ton, if we do that we get a 3% discount and another 3% discount if we pay cash. These tubs have an inhibitor in them so the cattle don't stand buy then all day and lick them like lolly pops. We have through the years tried other tubs but always go back to Crystalyx. They are not cheap That's why when we buy we load up for the discount. I know that's not going to help you seeing that you only have 1 heifer. I pretty sure Crystalyx also comes in 60 pounds tubs.
Barb
|
|
zephyrhillsusan
member
Caught Dexteritis in Dec. 2009. Member of this forum since Oct. 2013.
Posts: 1,502
|
Post by zephyrhillsusan on Sept 27, 2015 19:16:46 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by J & M Chambers on Sept 27, 2015 20:41:26 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Dahdo on Sept 28, 2015 20:36:54 GMT -5
A 500 lb heifer needs about 1-1.5 lbs of protein a day. If you are feeding 12-14 lbs of typical grass hay a day, that provides about half what they need. Then they need to lick about 2lbs a day of that 30% tub to get the rest. We have gone to a better quality hay from eastern Oregon and I don't have to supplement. I also like the kelp idea, I read about in Salatin's book, but didn't really try it until I heard how much Patti Adams liked it this year. They are looking better than ever, bright eyed and shiny coats!
|
|
|
Post by cheddar on Sept 29, 2015 10:52:43 GMT -5
Her coat really did improve with the addition of the Kelp plus the Fertrell minerals. Since she started the TSC protein tub and is not eating the Kelp and minerals there has been a decline in her condition. Thanks Dahdo for awakening me to that observation! She has had stronger heats since the protein tub though and my vets incentive was to "mineral her up" prior to breeding. So, my search for the Crystalyx, or Kent Feeds tub begins! Hope we can hit on the right balance here soon. Her hay quality is excellent so it was my hope to go entirely grass fed though we are in a majorly Selenium deficient area. Gonna try some Alfalfa pellets to see if I can mix the minerals and Kelp with that to get her eating them again! Thanks to all for your input. Really comforting to know you are there to share your experience, makes being new to Dexter's not quite so scarey!
|
|
|
Post by legendrockranch on Sept 29, 2015 17:27:34 GMT -5
Dave, we use Crystalyx not only for the additional protein our animals get, which really helps because our pastures are unimproved and drought affected. Depending on which of the 45 tubs they offer, yes you read correctly, they offer more than 45 tubs. It is an additional way of getting minerals into them. Want more protein than 30 percent or less than 20 percent? They have it. Want a tub for fly control? They have it. Want a tub that has more minerals? They have it. Want a tub that is a stress reliever or all natural? They have it. I'm sure they will be some that don't care for some of the ingredients used in these tubs, but they work for us. Every situation is different. www.crystalyx.com/#a Barb
|
|
|
Post by Dahdo on Sept 29, 2015 19:27:29 GMT -5
I see what you mean Barb, I looked at their website and the selection is mind boggling! Good to have options. Do they have knowledgeable people who will help you select the best product for your animals? I've been using Purina Wind and Rain All Season 12 for the last couple of years and they have taken it up pretty well during winter feeding, then backed off when out on pasture. Since I started putting a kelp/salt mix along side the Purina, they much prefer the kelp and only eat the Purina when the kelp is gone. I also took your advice and used the Multimin 90 prior to breeding this year just for added insurance. Everybody's bred, but I also changed another variable this year by bringing in a bull instead of doing AI, so who knows. Not very scientific changing so many variables, but what the heck I want calves not data.
|
|
|
Post by legendrockranch on Sept 29, 2015 21:30:39 GMT -5
You might be out of luck getting Crystalyx Dave. Just noticed that there were no dealers in Oregon. There are 9 in Idaho and a few others in surrounding states. Yes the reps are helpful, it's about location and what is needed in you particular area. You vet should be able to help with that. I still use the Multimin 90, my vet who now works for Merck was the one who suggested it. As far as to the minerals helping with your girls get bred, I'm sure it helped but more so was your decision to bring in a bull for live cover. Barb
|
|
zephyrhillsusan
member
Caught Dexteritis in Dec. 2009. Member of this forum since Oct. 2013.
Posts: 1,502
|
Post by zephyrhillsusan on Sept 30, 2015 11:15:25 GMT -5
Dahdo, part of getting Crystalyx also depends on the wholesale dealers. Our local feed store deals with a wholesaler in AL, and they only stock certain of the tubs. For the ones they stock, I can get one or two at a time, but for the others, I have to buy a pallet of 12. I need to call one of the helpful reps (as legendrockranch says, they really are helpful and knowledgeable) and see how long they'll last with our few head. I wish I knew someone around here who wanted to share an order!
|
|
|
Post by legendrockranch on Sept 30, 2015 17:49:23 GMT -5
Sorry Susan I forgot to answer your post about how long the tubs last. To be honest I can't really tell you, we move animals around sometimes in and out. The last 200 lb tub was put out about 2 weeks ago. On that pasture there are 14 Dexters, 11 adults and 3 - 3 month old. The calves lick it also. I don't think it's even down by 1/4 yet. It last a long time. Not like some of the other tubs that the animals can break up and chew.
Barb
|
|
|
Post by triplec on Oct 2, 2015 15:39:45 GMT -5
I would be curious why the protein tub was suggested. Proteins tubs are can be an expensive source of protein and even more so for minerals. I know I have to watch my money and look for the best ways to meet the nutrition. The first thing I would do is have my hay tested to see where you are starting out. I also should do this but have not but if I was thinking I needed added protein it is where I would start. As an example lets say my hay was only 10% protein, the cow was 1000 lb. and I was wanting to feed or was eating 3% of body weight. If looking at only protein requirements and using Pearson's square for figuring for a 12% crude protein target. To get to 12% the cow would need to eat 3 lb of a 30% lick. Pricing at $60/ 200# that is $328 per year. Looking at good alfalfa priced at $190 per ton at 18% CP the cow would need to eat 7.5 # of the ration to hit the target. The price of alfalfa per year would be $265. Someone please double check my math but that is the way I have it figured. I only could find a 24% tub online at TSC but took a weighted average of $60 www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/gx_gr310.txtextension.colostate.edu/topic-areas/agriculture/formulating-rations-with-the-pearson-square-1-618/
|
|
|
Post by J & M Chambers on Oct 2, 2015 21:52:08 GMT -5
Hi Triplec, I appreciate your and Dave's approach to examining the dollars and cents economics of protein tub supplementation. However we do not provide winter protein supplementation to our mature cow herd during our 5 to 6 month winter feeding period because the herd is on poor / low quality forage. Quite the contrary our cows are on a very high quality, consisting of home grown very good alfalfa for 3/4 s of our feed period and high quality mixed grass and legume hay for the remainder. We have found that our cows on this winter diet consume on average (winters vary) less than .4 lbs per day of the Kent EnergiLass® 25 AN tub. So over the course of 5 to 5.5 month winter feed period the cost is about $30 per head. So you ask, why put $30 extra per head per winter into your momma cows when they are on winter forage that will meet their needs? One, reduce our high quality forage intake to some degree even with a .4 lb per day average intake for $30 a head. We highly prefer to use only our home grown forage. While we typically have more than enough this helps insure we do not have to bring in winter hay. The claims of the protein tub providers that they do improve ration digestion I believe has something to do with this. Second, we believe this is cheap "nutrition insurance" for maintaining the condition of our cow herd, which we like to exit the winter in as good of condition as when they entered, and for calf crop every spring. For a 15 head cow herd the $450 a winter we typically spend on tubs we find pays in dollars and in piece of mind here on the plains. That and we think our cows actually like them as a change of pace from chomping alfalfa. Who's going to deny a dexter a bit of molassess when the wind chill is -15? SMD Cows in WinterWe have also used these tubs during drought conditions to good effect to reduce "dear" forage consumption. Jeff
|
|
|
Post by cheddar on Oct 6, 2015 19:51:56 GMT -5
Me Again. Found Crystalyx "Brigade" tubs about two and a half hours away. The "Natural" can only be purchased in the 250 or 200 lb. tub same for the "HE 20" and the "Min 90". So, off I go. Luckily it is a beautiful drive and the fall colors are awesome right now. I realize the dollars and sense goes out the window, luckily I get great gas mileage :-). Truthfully, I am a believer that every penny spent on good nutrition for my animals pays off in the long run in savings on vet bills and the try, try again, to get an animal bred. Has anyone used the Brigade?
|
|