AI Bulls

[zephyrhillsusan]

I was looking for something totally different online today and came across this site with a random assortment of AI bulls, including several Dexters, some of whom are not (and to my memory have never been) listed as AI sires on the ADCA.  The site doesn't mention their registration, so they might be PDCA.  They're selling Hillview Red Wing's semen for less than on the ADCA AI sires listing.  A lot more could have been said about Lane's End Microcosm, IMHO.

And on another subject, it seems like there are about half the number of AI sires listed under the ADCA as there used to be.  Would that be due to the new requirement that their genotypes be on file with both TAMU and UCD?  That is an excellent requirement as far as I'm concerned!  Not complaining, just wondering. 

[kansasdexters]

zephyrhillsusan - Yep, any AI bull advertised (at no charge) by ADCA members on the ADCA website is required to be genotyped at both UC-Davis VGL and Texas A&M, to facilitate parentage qualification of any ADCA registered AI-sired progeny. Anyone selling Dexter bull semen, that is advertised on the ADCA website AI Bull page, must submit the Accession No. and the VGL Case No. to the ADCA Registrar and be prepared to provide both of these to any purchaser of the semen being offered for sale on the ADCA website.


Patti

[hoperefuge]

I was hoping they would remove the ones listed by people who hadn't bothered to fulfill the new requirement.  I'm glad to see they finally did.

What I find really interesting is that they're all changed now, to say "contact the owner" for genotype info, instead of listing our accession numbers for the whole world to see!

Kim

[legendrockranch]

Just a comment, on the AI page. Which Kim brought to my attention. The animals name is listed along with the bulls registration number highlighted in blue (to click on) all listed on top. Right under that it says "contact the owner". Maybe it's just me but I just went up to the highlighted in blue ADCA number to get the owner. Of coarse I realized the person who is the owner might not be the person who collected the semen. Which I feel where the problem is.
In another area it says "contact" with a persons name. I just feel there might be a better way of listing the person selling the semen. Or completely remove "contact the owner".
Hope I'm explaining myself well enough. Long day with a little to much wine is my excuse

Barb

[zephyrhillsusan]

I think it's good that the accession numbers aren't listed because there's no reason to do it. Buyers of semen are going to have to contact the owners anyway to find out how to get the semen, so it's no hardship to get the accession numbers from them. In fact, if the bull's genotype is on file at A&M, you don't even need the accession number. When we AI'd our cow with Hillview Red Wing semen, I sent his name to A&M along with the cow's name (had her genotyped there) and they automatically parentage verified the calf. I wish UCD would do that. There's really no need for accession numbers to change hands. Red Wing's accession number wasn't going to do me any good, so why not just have the lab take care of it?

One thing I don't like about giving out accession numbers & case numbers is that whoever you give that number to can give it to anyone else they want to. I sold a heifer to my someone, then bred her to my bull for the buyer before they picked her up. So I gave my bull's VGL case number to the buyer, naturally, because VGL won't PV without it. The buyer, instead of doing the PV themselves when the calf was born, gave my bull's case number to Legacy and had Legacy do it. So now Legacy has my bull's case number--actually, Legacy says it has his "genotype on file," but apparently all that means is that Legacy has his case number. I don't know if I'm explaining this well, and I know there's not really anything Legacy can do with his case number, BUT if I had my bull at A&M instead of VGL, I wouldn't have had to give out his case number. The buyer would have just listed him as the sire, A&M would have PV'd the calf, and that would have been that.

Someone helped me PV my bull by giving me a VGL case number for another animal; they didn't currently own that animal, but they had its VGL case number. You know what? It stops here! I would never give it to anyone else, because it isn't mine to give. I'll be eternally grateful to that person who helped me, and I love to help people--but that doesn't extend to passing on a case number someone gave me. Maybe I'm a bit narrow-minded about this, but that's how it is.

legendrockranch , you made sense and you got me curious.  I started checking the pedigree links against the name listed on the AI page, and most are the same, but several are not: Daggett's Fredwin, SGIT Sean, Ace of Clove Brook, SGF Saber and Belle Fourche Rousseau.  So the question that arises is, who do you contact for semen and the genotype?  I assume it really means not the bull's owner as listed on his pedigree, but the person whose name is under his photo on the AI page.  As you say Barb, the current owner may not be the person who owns the semen.  I think the AI page needs to be clearer on who to contact because I believe the blue Registration link is only for the bull's pedigree, not contact info for his semen.  I agree that they need to remove that misleading sentence.  And if they're going to leave it, they need to say "Contact the bull's owner." 

Sorry for the long post!

[hoperefuge]

Yes, Barb, you made sense.  

Even when the current owner of the bull isn't the one selling semen, it seems it would be most natural for people to contact the semen owner for a UCD case#, since they've already been in contact to purchase the straws.  The ONLY thing somebody is going to be able to do with a UCD case# is parent verify a calf.  I don't see that there's much of a problem giving it out to people.  I just really didn't like having it posted there for the whole world to see, for some reason.

Kim

[zephyrhillsusan]

I know, hoperefuge , I was just reacting to the whole Legacy thing. 

[kansasdexters]

Anyone that is offering Dexter bull semen for sale on the ADCA AI Bull page is required to have genotyped that bull at both UC-Davis VGL and TAMU. So if you buy semen from the person that is listed as offering it for sale on the ADCA AI Bull page, you should get the UC-Davis VGL Case No. and/or the TAMU Accession No. (whichever one you need to parentage qualify), from the person that is selling you the semen. It's just that simple.

[cathylee]

Feb 5, 2016 17:53:21 GMT -5 zephyrhillsusan said:

I was looking for something totally different online today and came across this site with a random assortment of AI bulls, including several Dexters, some of whom are not (and to my memory have never been) listed as AI sires on the ADCA.  The site doesn't mention their registration, so they might be PDCA.  They're selling Hillview Red Wing's semen for less than on the ADCA AI sires listing.  A lot more could have been said about Lane's End Microcosm, IMHO.

And on another subject, it seems like there are about half the number of AI sires listed under the ADCA as there used to be.  Would that be due to the new requirement that their genotypes be on file with both TAMU and UCD?  That is an excellent requirement as far as I'm concerned!  Not complaining, just wondering. 

I guess I missed this when you initially posted it. I just met the pictured red Dexter named Thousand Hills Red Griz. He is a herd sire with the Jewel Basin herd near me in Big Fork Montana. We (a local fellow Dexter owner) checked out this bull and a half nephew of this bull.  My friend preferred the bull calf to this bull on first look and I liked him as well but could have gone either way. 

Thousand Hills Red Griz is a PDCA bull out of Glenn Land Mr Magee (genotype on file at TAMU).  The now hamburger sire (Thousand Hills Joe) of the bull calf we looked at was sired by Wee Gaelic Mr. O'Toole.  Very nice looking bull calf out of a lovely cow, Jewel Basin Collen, with Llanfair's Fireball as sire and dam's sire. I thought we could get the calf and register with ADCA because there was hamburger there but now I hear it might be contaminated and VGL doesn't even like to try with hamburger.  Mr. O'Toole is genotyped per the ADCA listing but I don't know where.  

Thousand Hills Red Griz and Joe have the same dam. 

Anyway so so many in the line genotyped but none that I know of on the bull calf 's sire. 

PDCA is the main registry around here. So it is more trouble for me to find a registered sire than for my friend.  

Anyone here have the experience of getting a genotype with hamburger?

[zephyrhillsusan]

cathylee , sorry, I have no clue whether any lab will do a genotype from hamburger or any other type of meat. I would think it's a very different set-up required from handling tiny bulbs on the end of hair follicles. Those don't spoil and wouldn't need to be kept under special conditions, whereas meat would.  Knowing human nature and how some people do things, I can imagine that if labs accepted meat, they might get some fairly gruesome samples in all stages of decomposition.    Sorry for your challenges in finding registered bulls.

[kansasdexters]

cathylee - ground beef cannot be used for genotyping, since there is a high probability of inclusion of other beef in the sample. When ground beef is made, the grinder normally starts out clean in the morning, but it is not thoroughly cleaned between each animal that is ground that day, so there may be inclusion of other DNA in the sample. Meat samples (from whole cuts like roast or steak) can be used for genotyping at both Texas A&M and UC-Davis. Texas A&M charges the same as for hair samples, UC-Davis charges $250 for genotyping from a meat sample.

Wee Gaelic Mr. O'Toole is genotyped at Texas A&M, and his Accession Number is 26866.


Patti

[cathylee]

Thanks, quite a price difference. I think we will do some genotyping to get them filed away and check some genes on the cows we like and the Bulls. Then we can make purchases in the future from him. Red Griz looks like a good prospect for this year but we both have A2A2 genetics and will think twice about messing that up with so many nice A2A2 AI sires out there. But a nice bull in the field is a lovely thing. I quite like the idea of picking up local cows from herds that are likely to be gone soon. The good size herds here have elderly owners. Rockin between here and Libby, MT has been cutting back the last two years. Jewel Basin has started culling more aggressively. These herds look very nice. I'm hoping that means even better quality in the last years of those herds.


It looks likes UC-Davis will try to verify from TAMU genotype but might not be able to.  So if I want genotype filed at UC-Davis I'm only out $5 for a try at sire varification there. But will have to send to TAMU and spend the additional money for a second genotype and verification. Not a big deal.

First of my half Dexters was born yesterday. Nice heifer out of our most people friendly cow and now a second calf heifer two for two on heifers.

I'm expecting a Galloway x Dexter next and then my first full Dexter by the 22nd.