jamshundred
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Post by jamshundred on Jul 21, 2015 9:25:10 GMT -5
Dexter owners ! ! You are invited! Browse the Legacy files and the World files of the Legacy Dexter Cattle Registry. The first genotype and currently the only genotype registry in the Western hemisphere. The Legacy Registry is UNIQUE. Check out those WORLD ancestor files. Additions daily. The only registry with entries from the early Irish herdbooks and the early English herdbooks.
You may listen to the small group of naysayers on this group if you wish. . .or you may visit the Legacy Registry website to see your own extended pedigrees or for research ( as Kirk of Cascade does almost daily and Patti Adams has been known to do a bit of research of her own), and decide for yourself what registry has the easiest format, the most comprehensive ancestor files and a search engine with endless possibilities!
Sour grapes haven't stopped Legacy yet! It just keeps getting bigger and better!
WORLD Dexter owners, you are invited to add your genotyped Dexters to the Legacy database for a small fee of $10.00. WHAT A DEAL. Connect to those pedigrees you will find not find elsewhere. Irish herd book 1, English herd book 1 entries and entries from the teens, 20s and 30s all coonnected as fast as possible to their ancestors. Entries are added daily.
ADCA doesn't recognize Legacy? WHO CARES? Legacy hasn't needed ADCA to grow and become the dominant registry for research in the Dexter breed. Dictatorships come and then they GO! That ADCA cannot stand the competition isn't stopping the competition from Legacy becoming unique and special just like the Dexters and their owners that Legacy has worked for now for over a decade!
Legacy IS and HAS been looking out for you! Here's some of the ways:
Legacy set up the Dexter DNA database at UCD and encouraged owners to begin genotyping their Dexters! It took ADCA . . . . . FIVE years before they realized the value of that effort.
Legacy negotiated with the CEO of the A2 Corp ( with permission of UCD) and for the FIRST time in the world, individual cattle owners were able to test their cows ( any breed) for this casein when A2 agreed to make the test available outside of the commercial breeds. Another Legacy win for Dexter owners!
Legacy negotiated with the Australian patent holder of the Chondro test and Dr. Beever the patent holder for the PHA test and brought those tests to UCD, making the UCD lab the FIRST and ONLY lab at the time to offer all available Dexter tests at one location. NOTE: At this time, ADCA was still refusing to recognize UCD as a lab so the fact that ADCA doesn't recognize something usually means it is BETTER than what ADCA has to offer!) Another Legacy win for Dexter owners!
Legacy negotiated prices at UCD that were LESS than HALF what owners were paying elsewhere, forcing other labs to drop their prices. Another win for Dexter owners!
Legacy did not need the approval of ADCA to make these innovative changes for Dexters and their owners, and the sad commentary is that while ADCA has been focusing on trying to stop Legacy, they could have shown some real leadership and partnered with Legacy to advance the interests of the breed and the owners. Lack of leadership and foresight!
Judy
PS. In response to MS. Adams. IF you look on this very board. . . . . . . . . . you will discover a thread where the idea for direct testing at contract prices with UCD first came to mind and was discussed by me as a resolution for owners caught between the Cothran lab, ( this is NOT a laboratory set up by the governing board of TAM) as you have been misled to believe by ADCA), *I* brought this idea to UCD and worked with the manager to implement it so that Dexter owners could, if they wished, control their testing and results. *I* did that. From day one Legacy has promoted the rights of owners for their samples and results, and this grew from the objection to the contract that ADCA signed with Dr. Cothran and Texas Agrilife which gave rights to the samples of ADCA owners for research of ANY type! There were NO stipulations in that contract that protected the rights of Dexter owners or their Dexters and a copy is available upon request)! LEGACY has fought for your rights time after time. NOW. . . .. YOU should be fighting for the rights of LEGACY. Are you going to permit ADCA to control your personal and business interests? If dictators and socialism is your baliwick then ONE entity is what you should support. . . . . if you support competition which brings positive changes. . . . . then YOU should be supporting Legacy. You should support CHOICE. . . .. because Legacy is a GOOD choice!
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jamshundred
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Post by jamshundred on Jun 13, 2015 19:44:11 GMT -5
Thank you Holly, it was kind of you to say that. I tell the story of a breeder in my region who was about to register first time offspring and ordered tests with initials. I strongly urged a unique herd name be considered and gave examples of great names in the US and other countries. And then I gave some examples of herd names in the region with initials, and asked her if she recognized the herds, and began to give her their identities. i got to one of them. .. and I could not for the life of me remember anything about the herd, and I DO know my Dexter bloodlines, especially in the east! Boy, was the case made when I finally looked it up, it was a family I know well, and they started their herd with cattle I sold them. Initials are the same as being anonymous in most cases. I think you now have a great herd name!
Judy
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jamshundred
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Help build the Legacy Dexter Cattle "Forever" Genotype database
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Post by jamshundred on Jun 13, 2015 19:31:09 GMT -5
Davidson, you can call me by my name. . . . .my deceased husband was quite proud to sign it. Why the sly innuendo? Trying to change your pitiful reputation or something? HA! Well, let's address your concerns and get you straight on your facts.
Yes, that's me. It isn't easy with all the Dexters, but it IS easy to spot in many of them as soon as you learn the signs. Sorry that isn't an area of expertise for you. . but no reason to be jealous, perhaps if you would ask your friend John Potter, he will teach you what to look for. I saw Carol Kollar, another friend post on a chat board once that John can do the same. Wonder of wonders.
You are so beside yourself even you forget which lies you tell. I never once suggested the multiple outcrossed grade bull, Saltaire Platinum, had anything to do with red polled. Consult your sources.
I see others suggest Angus in Platinum. . . I do not, although I believe there is something written somewhere from England that one of those mulitple crosses in his pedigree was an angus cross perhaps. Whatever the polled breed, it is having turning much of the US herd into little beef clones. Wait, I think I did say I saw a red polled Dexter that was identical to a photo of in a magazine of a red angus herd. Oh, and wait. . . . I think the much respected breeder from England, Dr. Duncan MacIntyre is on the record with a theory that included a red shorthorn bull, and "someone" gave that to one of your mentored ones. Or maybe you did? It is all so confusing after all. Could you try just a wee bit harder to get your info straight please. Or is it that you are so bored here now you missed me? LOL. Whatever they look like. . . . it is ****NOT**** traditional Dexters. Newbies, if you really want to see what a Dexter should look like. . . . . . go to Utube, ( or the Dexter cattle historical page on Facebook) and find the Grinstead herd video.
Davidson, it cracks me up when you fail so miserably. Didn't you try to buy Ms. Fermoy but you could not get her across the border to Canada? Didn't you buy a number of animals form this herd? They were not DNA tested or parentage confirmed so how did you know which were the "real" thing and which were not? Didn't you collect one of the bulls and sell his semen. No doubts about him at all? Somehow it just doesn't seem to me that you had valid concerns. By the way, need I remind you that Mrs. Fermoy was the "matriarch" of the red polled animals in the US? A person would be hard pressed not to find her in their pedigrees. Can those grade lines really stand another "down"crossing? I think you should have your meds adjusted.
And on, and on. Well let's hear some more so I can continue to point out your lack of veracity.
Oh! Forgot to ask. You assured me, ( on this very chat group) that if I paid for the genotype of Rosegay it would be done. I sent the money to ADCA and told you so. You never did it. Hiding something? Why else would you not provide full parentage confirmation for her offspring? Just asking . . .. .
udy
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jamshundred
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Help build the Legacy Dexter Cattle "Forever" Genotype database
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Post by jamshundred on Jun 13, 2015 15:15:50 GMT -5
Holly, it is great to see you select a unique and very pretty herd name. I deplore the practice of ADCA and PDCA to tell owners to use their farm initias. You will not find that a general practice in other countries.
I sincerely urge anyone using initials to try and change their herd name. Your herd is identified by that herd name FOREVER. Could you imagine Woodmagic with initials? Or Grinstead as LLD ( Lady Loder Dexters). Herd names are very important.
Judy
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jamshundred
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Help build the Legacy Dexter Cattle "Forever" Genotype database
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Post by jamshundred on Jun 13, 2015 15:05:21 GMT -5
Jeff,
*I* know of instances. Two of them happened to me with animals *I* purchased. They were registered with a sire that was over 20 years old and the breeder didn't own him, didn't live in the state where the bull resided, the cows didn't visit the bull, and the owner didn't take the bull to the cows. He didn't own the cow either. Absolute fraud, they were outcrossed and they both got registered.
I know of two cows that are polled and registered as horned. The owner proclaimed this on a chat board. . .the post is still available. Didn't consider it a big deal at all. .was a bit ruffled that anyone would! I would definitely refer anyone interested to go find the post but that breeder is not registering any longer. No need.
I know of several animals with problematic parentage. How many on this board would proclaim them outcrosses? They are still in the registry so it must not matter. I've heard a couple people here proclaim their involvement on the P&G committee(s)and state there are animals they know of whose parentage is in error.
And then there is the case of the seven heifers registered as horned and then outed by a potential buyer as polled. No way on God's green acre would UCD have issued the finding that ADCA permitted, which even the lab that did it admits was pretty iffy. More than "iffy" they lab wasn't advised of genotypes from horned offspring that existed.
I was told by a former Director that he was on the farm of a prominent breeder and he had him "dead to rights" on outcrossing for polled.
Jeff, I am completely surprised that you do not understand "suspicion of knowledge sufficiently"because anyone with any professional experience or knowledge or perhaps even a grain of intelligence knows the meaning of "litigious society" and a bit more surprised that you singled out Mike and his comments in the manner you did.
Barb and others, let's have a spelling bee. Start with "hypocrisy". For years you have over and over talked about all the bulls that jump fences and implied over and over and over that no pedigree is to be respected. Remember those posts?
You diminish your credibility when you go after someone for the same type of comments you have made repeatedly in the past simply because you have personal issues with him. Did you buttress your comments with a disclaimer as you should have so newbies here are aware you and the person have had personal disagreements and your post might- could have been construed as not being of concern or benefit to the chat community but a "get even" act of spite?
Sorry - every now and then I like to drop in and and add an off-tune note to the choir singing in the same key in the background.
Judy
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jamshundred
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Help build the Legacy Dexter Cattle "Forever" Genotype database
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Post by jamshundred on Jun 7, 2015 0:40:37 GMT -5
Dragon,
Legacy has a U,ber of preservation breeders in the mid-Atlantic area. Other sites to gather historical and preservation information are:
DexterCattleAmericanLegacy.info JamsHundred.com.
Judy
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jamshundred
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Help build the Legacy Dexter Cattle "Forever" Genotype database
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Post by jamshundred on May 11, 2015 11:59:23 GMT -5
Ps Kirk. You missed one. Starts with MLW.. That one turned up and again ADCA leadership fails the breed
Judy
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jamshundred
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Help build the Legacy Dexter Cattle "Forever" Genotype database
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Post by jamshundred on May 11, 2015 11:58:11 GMT -5
Kirk, as to Allies Fling of Grandview. Guess who was gung-ho to get that calf registered as a mutation. If PROOF exists why haven't we seen it? That is another animal in the registry because.....I have been told Davidson threatened to sue ADCA over it. Well Carol? Tell everyone if that is true and why you wanted that animal accepted so badly?
I have also been told a prominent breeder purchased and removed descendants from the breed pool. ADCA leadership has systematically refused to protect or cherish this breed
Judy
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jamshundred
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Post by jamshundred on May 11, 2015 11:53:45 GMT -5
Name names of the calf Carol. . That is a crock. You are too adept at tossing out "evidence" that is not confirm able. There is yet posts on various chat groups where you said a number of scientists confirmed Esmeralda had to be a mutation. ha. Hope they had their credentials confiscated. . Quote the polled stats all you wish but show me a mutation that is PV proven for TWO generations. That is what it takes TWO. The only case I ever thought had a chance had the calf, the sire and the dam submitted to Potter and the owner told me he requested results repeatedly and never got them. Finally Potter told him it was outcrossed and he still could not get the results he paid for.
Judy
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jamshundred
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Post by jamshundred on May 9, 2015 22:34:56 GMT -5
I certainly think DNA genotyping is very important and I think my track record is out there. I was for it. . . when you wasn't. . or "couldn't afford it". YOU had the luxury of time and choice didn't you? Now that many have had that choice, they wish to make it mandatory for all. There's a name for that in the psych books. ( and some members of leadership have NOT thought it very important until the very, very, very, recent past, which is quite indictcative of what is really the focus) Dexters can not afford to lose any more traditional horned bloodlines in this breed, and traditionally. . . . . . it is the homesteaders and small farms who have them, and it is they who will go taking the cows with them. It has not helped that there has been no support for us for a decade. There is already a very active market out there across the country for unregistered Dexters and it is going to grow. . .who would say that is a good thing? The problem with mistakes that are made without fully considering the ramifications is that they are rarely reversible. The damage is lasting. I know. I've worked hours and hours and hours to recover cows back into this breed from previous bad choices by leadership. It is very difficult to do with any success. WHO are you going to sell those cows too when the Ponzi scheme crashes? Breeders who have not been in "exotic" breeds simply do not understand the long term detrimental effects on a breed when the fad crashes and they all crash! As the small holders leave. . . . . and the breeders pool and opportunists move on to the next fad, ( I see it starting now), who is going to buy that $2500 milk cow? Some of you may have milked the cash cow successfully to date. .. . but it will not last. . . not in this breed. The market is not there for the long run and no matter how many people buy the brochure, the percentage of new buyers that stay in this breed beyond five years is small, beyond ten is very small. I think the downturn is just on the edge of beginning here in the states. I know it is going on in England. . and I think Canada as well.
I have a pretty good track record. I am rarely wrong. . . . because I give things lots of thought. . . .I look at things from every angle studying all possibilities. This is not what has been done by leadership. They are fixated on the competition from Legacy and not the breed. They are in effect - about to close their herd book to a neighboring country ( Canada) which does NOT require the testing that will be necessary ( supposedly) to import and register a cow in the US, and they are doing the same for England. It takes only ONE generation for the problem to rear it's head, and I do not see breeders in Canada or England letting ADCA dictate their policy. YOU may think you can single-handedly save the American herd with your semen bank, but do American breeders wish to ALL be beholden to you when the now 85% of the US herd descending from one many-times outcrossed bull, becomes 95%? YOU also are fixated on having YOUR way. . and not thinking through the serious issues facing the US herd with the gene pool and the entire US herd being turned into a polled herd. Interestingly ALL those mistakes you harp on . . .. DID NOT change or harm the US herd as the lack of thoughtful leadership did! And is about to yet again. There was a fixation on having their own way in 2004 and no one would listen when asked to stop and think. Look what happened. Well, the same momentum is going on now fueled by almost the very same people. Won't you guys eve listen or learn?
Judy
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jamshundred
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Post by jamshundred on May 9, 2015 16:41:17 GMT -5
Thanks Carol for reminding me of the class system. Way too long since I used to read the historical romances where someone born to the broom is swept off her feet by a blue blood only to discover she is actually a countess!
There were a few folks who had to make a fortune through cattle trading as the breed was founded. They must have picked the hillsides clean.
Judy
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jamshundred
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Help build the Legacy Dexter Cattle "Forever" Genotype database
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Post by jamshundred on May 9, 2015 16:27:36 GMT -5
Kirk
Old news. I lost a sweetheart of a Dexter bull because he was PHA positive and that was years back. Are you forgetting one of the most respected breeders and Legacy herds in the world brought PHA to North America? Having said that.......I hope the test was double-checked. (1). Not a Legacy cow but a traditional one (Parndon Bullfinch in the pedigree) and (2) I don't see Woodmagic Wheatear but there are so many Woodmagic animals my eyes were crossing . If she is not there than something I heard years ago might have been right.
I wish their was something I could do to ease your angst over the 4 outcrossings in your 10 line pedigree (ADCA was willing to cede 6 in some lines and 7 in others but 4 is correct and sad enough.
I would certainly say there are Legacy polled Dexters but it still does not erase those outcrossings.
Sorry
Judy
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jamshundred
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Post by jamshundred on May 9, 2015 7:54:34 GMT -5
Kirk,
I have not researched Woodmagic. There are a few breeders out there who have, one in Australia and one in Scotland who could probably answer that question. I think I would say it was not Plover. I KNOW Grinstead Plover is not responsible for the dun.
The Grinstead herd is a fascinating herd. There isn't a cow in the world of Dexters that was not influenced by this herd. And what a beautiful herd! When I think of the Grinstead video, I see Lady Loder standing there reacting to an unknown/unheard comment from the person standing beside her, and her face and eyes light up and she has what I interpret as a wonderful tentative and shy but somewhat hesitant smile of pride.
I suppose I had a notion the Grinstead herd was a closed herd because it was so large and so long enduring in the breed, yet. . it you look through the pedigrees that was not the case. It began with foundation animals, and there were various animals added from other herds.
I am intrigued by the dun and the red. In the early Irish records there were red cattle and the percentages seemed about right for the foundation of the breed. In the early English records there are lots of red animals. Trying to trace through the Grinstead red has me wondering if the predominant color called "red" in the early herdbooks wasn't actually "dun". The photos of red animals I've found are in black/white as would be anything of those early time periods. I've been going to ask some red breeders ( like you Kirk) to take some photos in black and white so I can see how the coat color appears.
Looking through the pedigrees, the percentages, the herds with the modern knowledge we have. . . I am wondering if perhaps the colors of the breed weren't actually dun and black with an odd red here and there. That is nothing but conjecture. . . a theory. . but all knowledge flows from a "maybe" somewhere down the chain.
It is interesting to watch how the breed and the herds developed.
Oh! Something else I find interesting. Because there were a number of royals in the breed, including the King of England, there has always been the impression the breed was the darling of the rich. . . . little pet show pieces on immense estates. It has been interesting to me to see a lot of owners were military and clergy. Perhaps that segment of the population were also wealthy in England. ( Not so much in America).
It is a pleasure to see your interest Kirk. Look at all the red in the early English records! How interesting if we could discover some of that was actually "red-dun". I'm thinkin..just maybe.......
Judy
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jamshundred
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Post by jamshundred on May 7, 2015 0:29:05 GMT -5
you are parsing reality. For animals from Other countries, except Australia where no animals have yet traveled to the U.S, to be imported they would have to qualify by ADCA rules. If those countries are not doing mandatory parentage then they will not qualify. Animals from the largest Irish Dexter registry in the world would not qualify for import. Unless they get preferential treatment over American animals.
Are you the designated ADCA spokesperson? I note no ADCA Officer or Director is out promoting this proposal. You seem to be the only engine driving the train. Are we sure the leadership of the association is on the same mission?
Judy
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jamshundred
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Post by jamshundred on May 7, 2015 0:03:17 GMT -5
This is great fun Kirk. David and Goliath and Goliath is still reeling trying to find its feet. Great fun!
Judy
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