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Post by Star Creek Dexters on Oct 31, 2010 15:53:49 GMT -5
Hi Judy, It sounds like you know quite a bit about A2. Where have you learned your information from? Is it the same things that we have all read, or do you know something more?
I am aware of how to breed it into my stock. That is not an issue for me. What is an issue is that we most definitely have plans to run a raw milk dairy, and if I test my animals and am selling milk, what slack am I going to pull from A2 Corp.
It is very disturbing, and my husband and I have basically come to the conclusion that we will not test anymore unless a buyer specifically ask for a cow to be tested.
I would very much like to know how they can tell what beta casien a cow produced 5,000 years ago.
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Post by Star Creek Dexters on Oct 31, 2010 22:04:16 GMT -5
www.nzfsa.govt.nz/policy-law/projects/a1-a2-milk/a1-a2-report.pdfInteresting report, I find all of this amazing. There is so much knowledge out there. I am also wondering y’alls take on the fact that whey has been completely left out of this A1/A2 study. Beta Casein is only one part of the milk make up, the other is whey. Whey has been proven to prevent heart disease, cancer, diabetes, and the body’s ability to heal itself. How can one protein cause some of these things, while the other is fighting it? I don't mean to sound pessimistic here; I just don't want to be taken for a ride by some company looking to make a buck. I haven't found any convincing evidence as of yet that they are not doing that...
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Post by kansasdexters on Nov 1, 2010 23:03:19 GMT -5
There may be some challenges to the A2 Milk Corporation's patents in the United States. Found this bit of news today: www.dailyfinance.com/story/justice-department-says-genes-are-not-patentable/19698097/If the United States Justice Department denies and invalidates patents on genes, then the A2 Milk Corporation may not be able to take anyone to court over the knowledge of them having A2 Beta Casein homozygous cattle or breeding for A2 Beta Casein homozygous cattle. The A2 Milk Corporation has had its ups and downs: www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2006/s1702999.htmThe Justice Department ruling may just be the last straw, at least for the production and sale of A2 Beta Casein "trademarked" milk in the United States.
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Post by kansasdexters on Nov 2, 2010 11:37:48 GMT -5
Genebo, You're not keeping up with the A2 Corporate activities. They have filed a patent application in the United States ( www.freepatentsonline.com/y2010/0041042.html ) that is essentially a patent on a gene and the use of that inherent genetic component in the production of a product that has specific and defined health effects and benefits. Here are some excerpts from this patent application: FIELD OF THE INVENTION "This invention relates to milk free of the Beta-casein A 1 protein. Such milk is useful for the prevention or treatment of coronary heart disease. In particular, the invention relates to the breeding of bovine bulls that do not have DNA encoding for Beta-casein A 1 with bovine cows that do not have DNA encoding for Beta-casein A 1 and then milking the progeny cows. The milk produced is free of Beta-casein A 1 . " and BACKGROUND OF THE INVENTION "Coronary heart disease is a major cause of death, particularly in western world countries where the populations are generally well-nourished. Many factors are implicated as risk factors for this disease including obesity, smoking, genetic predisposition, diet, hypertension, and cholesterol. Dairy products, especially milk, are a major contributor to the dietary intake of humans, again particularly in western world populations. Milk contains numerous components of nutritional and health benefit. Calcium is one example. However, milk is also a significant source of dietary fat. It is widely accepted that saturated fats found in milk are a risk factor for coronary heart disease. However, an additional risk factor present in some bovine milk unrelated to the fat content has been discovered. What is entirely surprising is the source of the risk. The source is not dependent on the fat content of milk. Instead, it is a milk protein, Beta-casein, which is linked to coronary heart disease. A number of variants of milk proteins have been identified. Initially, three variants of Beta-casein were discovered (Aschaffenburg, 1961) and were denoted A, B and C. It was later found that the A variant could be resolved into A 1 , A 2 and A 3 by gel electrophoresis (Peterson et. al. 1966). The Beta-casein variants now known are A 1 , A 2 , A 3 , B, C, D, E and F, with A 1 and A 2 being present in milk in the highest proportions. It is anticipated that other variants may be identified in the future. The milk protein Beta-casein A 1 has been determined to represent the risk factor in bovine milk that is linked to coronary heart disease, or at least is the principal risk factor. This determination forms the basis of the present invention. " Patti
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Post by kansasdexters on Nov 3, 2010 17:06:56 GMT -5
Genebo,
The A2 Milk Company was not the first to develop a genetic test for A1 and A2 Beta Casein. They didn't "discover" A2 Beta Casein nor the gene that codes for it. They do have a patented test for this gene, but their test isn't the only test for this gene. Please check out the following reference and take note of the publication date:
Genotyping bovine milk proteins using allele discrimination by primer length and automated DNA sizing technology
Authors: 1. M Lindersson, 2. A Lund¨¦n, 3. L Andersson Published: Animal Genetics Volume 26, Issue 2, pages 67¨C72, April 1995
Department of Animal Breeding and Genetics, Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences, Box 7023, S-750 07 Uppsala, Sweden *Correspondence: M Lindersson
Summary A method for genotyping K-casein (A, B, E), Beta-casein (A1, A2, A3, A5, B) and Beta-lactoglobulin (A, B) simultaneously by the use of allele discrimination by primer length combined with automated detection of fragments with a sequencing instrument is described. Seven different mutations within the milk protein genes were analysed in order to distinguish between the alleles examined. The samples were amplified in two separate multiplex polymerase chain reactions (PCRs), which were then pooled and separated according to size in a single lane on the gel. By using stringent PCR conditions, we have been able to achieve allele-specific amplifications and minimize amplification of mismatched primer for all seven mutations.
Honestly, how can the A2 Milk Corporation be awarded a patent claiming that they "invented" the breeding of bovine bulls that do not have DNA encoding for Beta-casein A 1 with bovine cows that do not have DNA encoding for Beta-casein A 1 and then milking the progeny cows???
Don't you understand the repercussion of this? That they would then "own" rights and therefore be entitled to royalities and/or licensing fees on any production of bovine milk known to be devoid of A1 Beta-casein? This would apply regardless of what test was used to determine A1 and A2 Beta Casein status. Do you really think that this is okay???
Patti
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Post by Star Creek Dexters on Nov 3, 2010 19:44:22 GMT -5
"A2 Corp has said full ownership will give it exclusive rights for the production and sale of A2 milk products in Australia and Japan."
This statement, among many others that I have read, is what has red flags going off for me. This is obviously an "in it for the money" mentality. It is not OK to corner a market on a gene that has been around way before they "discovered" it, and claim ownership of it, at the expense of established, or up and coming dairies.
I also have big problems with the health cures they are claiming.
From what I have read, the things they are claiming are not proven, but great assumptions, stretches of studies with inconclusive results.
Cardiovascular diseases: The available clinical evidence is sparse and unhelpful in determining whether this is a true cause and effect relationship. One animal study showed some support for the atherogenic nature of a diet with a very high A1 β-casein supplementation, but the results were far from conclusive and there is difficulty on translating animal studies to human health.
Neurological disorders: There have been several poorly-controlled clinical trials of casein-free, gluten free diets in people with autism. In general, the diets seem to reduce some of the autistic behaviors, but the bias inherent in the studies (especially lack of blinded assessment) may explain some of the findings. The evidence that A1 β-casein is related to schizophrenia is very scant.
As a matter of individual choice, people may wish to reduce or remove A1 β- casein from their diet (or their children’s diet) as a precautionary measure. This may be particularly relevant for those individuals who have or are at risk 6 of the diseases mentioned (type 1 diabetes, coronary heart disease, autism and schizophrenia). However, they should do so knowing that there is substantial uncertainty about the benefits of such an approach.
I am very leery of big companies. This reminds me of Monsanto in some ways. Maybe, in due time, the testing will be done to bring these things to pass, but to devalue a hard working dairy and a wonderful milk cow because she doesn't carry the gene they are claiming is healthier is wrong. To claim ownership of this gene after making these statements is wrong.
I will also say from a completely personal point of view that my middle child exhibited a lot of autistic characteristics early on in life, which is one of the reasons we started with raw milk. We changed our eating habits drastically and cut out All processed food, All dyes and All preservatives and he is a perfectly happy, healthy 4 yr old today. He drinks at least a quart of A1/A2 milk a day and has since he was 18 months old.
To me, A2 Corp will need to be followed closely. Something just doesn't feel right about it.
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Post by kansasdexters on Feb 5, 2011 6:24:55 GMT -5
I was reading the A2 Milk Corporation's 2010 Annual Report: www.a2corporation.com/AnnualReport_2010_web.pdfThe following excerpt comes from the Managing Director's Report on Page 7: "USA During the year a2C has been responding to increasing interest from dairy farmers in the USA. As a result, the Company negotiated certified genetic a2 cattle testing agreements with the highly respected testing entity in the USA; the University of California Davis. This agreement allows dairy cattle to be tested for the a2 beta casein gene; with testers and farmers advised of a2C’s ownership of the IP (intellectual property) dealing with test results and their use for determining herd formation and milking." Okay folks, A2 Milk Company is "advising" us of their ownership of the intellectual property dealing with test results and their use for determining herd formation and milking. If you tested for this gene at UC-Davis, then, by contract agreement, the A2 Milk Company has complete access to the A2/A1 beta casein test results (that you paid for), and that includes your name, address, phone number, email address, animal name, animal registration number, sire and dam, etc.
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Post by midhilldexters on Feb 5, 2011 10:07:47 GMT -5
I thought that was always the case, didn't Cal Davis have that in their literature somewhere? I'm pretty sure I read that, but can't for the life of me remember where.
Carol
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Post by marion on Feb 5, 2011 10:48:44 GMT -5
www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/services/A2Genotyping.phpHere's the wording on the ucdavis testing information page. As I read it, it is of course necessary to test to form an A2 herd, but the emphasis seems to be on the production of milk and the marketing of that milk as A2 milk. I dont read it as applying to advertising breeding stock as A2. Think of all the testing dollars and free advertising they are getting from us small breeders..marion
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Post by kansasdexters on Feb 5, 2011 13:29:53 GMT -5
You're missing the point. UC-Davis doesn't specifically mention the "intellectual property" that the A2 Milk Company is claiming concerning this testing. Read it again:
"A2 Milk Company is "advising" us of their ownership of the intellectual property dealing with test results and their use for determining herd formation and milking."
Ownership of intellectual property conveys certain rights to the owner. By testing through UC-Davis, you are agreeing to give the A2 Milk Company specific intellectual property rights dealing with test results and their use for determining herd formation and milking. What the A2 Milk Company decides they want to do with the intellectual property rights that concern Dexter cattle, remains to be seen. But it's theirs, not yours, and if you use it for determining herd formation and milking, they may decide to request payments (royalities) for the "use" of their intellectual property.
The Dexter breed is not the only cattle breed that is affected by this. Other dairy breeds, including Guernsey, Ayrshire, Dutch-Belted, Devon, Milking Shorthorn, and Kerry cattle are very concerned about how the A2 Milk Company may be taking steps to exercise their intellectual property rights, as a direct result of obtaining these test results in the United States under the conditions of their contract agreement with UC-Davis.
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Post by marion on Feb 5, 2011 15:13:55 GMT -5
Hi Patti, I do understand that, but it seems the wording indicates they are linking herd formation *with* milking, rather than herd formation independent of milking? It certainly could be argued that no one would bother to test and select for an A2 herd, without the intention to milk, but can you see a scenario where they would sleuth pedigrees to see whether all cows in a (Dexter) herd that have been retained, are A2? Do you see in the future, Dexter owners getting a letter telling them to cease and desist advertising on their websides that their cattle are A2 or pay a royalty? I thought about this when I first read it, and decided not to add it to my worry list. It is certainly something we need to be aware of. There is a small corner of my mind though, that considers the possibility that perhaps the Emperor has no clothes. I need to do more reading ..marion
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Post by Star Creek Dexters on Feb 7, 2011 22:26:16 GMT -5
It’s just one more way for someone to gouge the little guy.
It's wrong. They don't own a gene that has been around since cows came into existence. They may have created a test for it, but it's wrong that they now lay claim to ownership or entitlement to that gene.
I absolutely disagree with it. I find it very disturbing that there is no outsourced testing being done to confirm their results.
I have and will do my part to inform people of the whole scope of A2 milk and not just the sales pitch that has hit the internet.
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Post by cddexter on Feb 7, 2011 23:02:47 GMT -5
what has me concerned is watching someone speak out of both sides of his mouth, and feel comfortable about it. I think we've all seen the comments about how terrible the ADCA and TAM are for POTENTIALLY having access to any test results, and Genebo is still negatively going on about how the ADCA benefits financially, as though this is something unique, but at the same time has absolutely no problem supporting the A2 Corp having full access to test results, even to the point where they could control how we use the info.
I've come to the conclusion this is just another gene to promote the 'specialness' of certain animals, for which the owner now would like to improve his sales. Applied research is often worth the inverse ratio to how much money was spent on it. c.
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Post by kansasdexters on Feb 7, 2011 23:57:52 GMT -5
Here's what many people don't seem to realize: Intellectual property can be traded, bought, and sold.
If Monsanto (or ADM or Cargill or Tyson or Kraft Foods, etc.) decides that they want to buy some or all of the A2 Milk Corporation's "intellectual property", and then use it for their own purposes and financial gain (at our expense) there is nothing to stop that from happening.
Patti
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Post by Olga on Feb 8, 2011 9:08:14 GMT -5
Oh Patti, don't get me started on Monsanto! I'm having to do controlled breathing not to get on my soap box!
Anywho... If one was to buy only the offspring of cattle that do not carry A1 - one would guarantee certain results without having any strings attached to the lab/corporation. It would be to the benefit of current breeders to test - yet it wouldn't have anything to do with "dairy".
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