How do you bottle feed a calf?!

[aislinnmeadows]

otf,
Sorry, missed calf question. Her pedigree shows she has had at least 6 calves.

Susan

[Olga]

Susan, I do agree that the udder looks bad. But what about her daughters' udders? If the bull has good udder genetics (such as that the bull's dam had a very good udder) there is a good chance that his daughters will inherit this trait.

Our Maxine has large teats. They get very large during the last week or so before the calf's birth and then for about the next 2 weeks after the calf is born. Her protective mothering and paranoid set of mind compounds the problem. She is difficult to catch during this time so we have to keep her in the barn/paddock and milk her out every day/every other day. But her daughters don't have her teats and their front attachment is better too.

So we came up with a solution. This winter, after she has dried up, we will use chemical mastectomy to kill both front quarters that get those large teats. She won't be our milker anymore, but she'll continue on being a good pasture mama, with no involvement required. She produces plenty of milk in her rear two quarters to raise a calf on and we won't have to chase her/pen her up in order to milk her out anymore.

So when you see the vet, ask him about your cow's udder condition. If some quarters have lots of scar tissue from mastitis - there is a good chance that those quarters get mastitis every lactation. Those quarters could be a candidate for chemical mastectomy. Find out if she has even one good quarter that is functioning correctly. Even one proper quarter will make enough colostrum for the baby and provide enough nutrition for the first few weeks. Then you can start creep feeding the calf some grain and it should grow fine.

If there was a solution to managing your cow's udder, I wouldn't be in a hurry to get rid of her. Make sure the bull's testicles are well attached, not hanging low; that his teats are on the body, not the neck of the scrotum; that his teats are uniform and squarely positioned. Find out what his daughters turned out like - make some phone calls to current owners. I wouldn't register any bull calves out of this cow but her daughters could still be good. In any case you could still eat/sell for meat anything you didn't like.

[legendrockranch]

Jul 13, 2011 10:12:45 GMT -5 Olga said:

Make sure the bull's testicles are well attached, not hanging low; that his teats are on the body, not the neck of the scrotum; that his teats are uniform and squarely position

Hi Olga, just to clarify the comment above. Below are some quotes taken from a couple articles. With some of us located in HOT areas of the country our bulls testicles will hang low. Of coarse with the temps so high that's all most of us with cattle have been worrying about.

"The Purpose of The Scrotum (Temperature Control): The testicles have two functions: (1) producing spermatozoa, and (2) producing the hormone, testosterone. The testicles are located outside of the body cavity in the scrotum. This is essential for normal sperm formation which occurs at a temperature several degrees below normal body temperature. The scrotum is important for thermoregulation of the testicles. This is done by means of a temperature sensitive layer of muscle (cremaster muscle) located in the wall of the scrotum which relaxes when hot and contracts when cold. Relaxation increases the relative length of the scrotum, thus moving the testicles away from body heat, In cold weather, the scrotum shortens and the testicles are held close to the warm body."

"The testicles should hang down well away from the body in warm weather. There should be an obvious "neck" at the top of the scrotum, with the testicles hanging down large and pearshaped. A bull with a straightsided scrotum or a "V" shaped scrotum (tapering down to the tip) is often not as fertile as a bull with a normal scrotum."

Sorry I did ont mean to hijack the thread.
Barb

[wanette]

Susan,
we just built a stanchion from the plans that Kim sent us and they work well. We are modifying the boards that make the V part to allow them to open fully for our cow's horns, Hubby was able to put this together over a weekend. Thanks Kim.

Wanette

[Olga]

Thanks, Barb! Good article. I know that we all have different level of knowledge and experience, and when I say "not hanging low" it's not the same visual that someone else has of "hanging low". Way back C. D. posted some good info about udder and how it relates to bull's scrotum, ab0out the curve with which the sac hangs, the neck, etc.

[cjsfarm]

Isn't amasing that any species has propriated with all the imperfections in life!!!

[legendrockranch]

Hopefully others will chime in on this conversation instead of letting just me take the hit.
With all due respect Genebo you cows udder is ok, I would like to see a better fore udder attachment on this gal, the rear attachment from what I can see also looks in need of some help also.
I surely don't have perfect animals, it seems like when you have one problem worked out another one pops up.
The ADCA classification work sheet has some good drawings that show what we should look for as far as the structure of an animal.

Barb

[cddexter]

thanks, gene. Can you all see that the suspensory ligament in the scrotum only goes part way up the sac? Now look at the rear attachment of the udder: waaaay forward. This lack of good rear attachment is inherited, as gene points out in his pics.

A lopsided scrotum is another fault that can be inherited. Notice how it literally pulls from the right? (crease of skin from the top down to the middle of the right testicle). The epididymous is also uneven. The right one is quite big, the left almost hidden.

In one of the evaluation courses I took, we went to a big dairy farm and checked out cows, calves and the two bulls. We were told this unevenness is another inherited trait, and the lecturer showed us in-milk cows with udders that were bigger on one side than another, and asked to see the sire. Sure enough, his balls were uneven, too. I don't know enough to say this is consistent, but in this case, it did follow through.

Fun stuff. c.

[cddexter]

gene, I guess I didn't explain properly. the suspensory ligament is not the skin crease from the top. it's the crease that goes around the bottom of the scrotum. Size does have a lot to do with quantity of semen, but not the quality. I wasn't referring to how fertile he was, just what genes he was likely to have in herited, and to pass on. It doesn't matter whether you go forward or back in the pedigree. ofspring inherit forward, ancestors provide genes back. c.

[Olga]

We may be getting off topic here, sorry Susan!

Thank you for pics, Gene.
C., I've looked at the classificiation. I'm wondering if you have any actual pictures, not schematic drawings, of features on a bull that relate to udder. It would be very educational to see what a good suspensory ligament looks like. Do you have any idea how big a bull's teats should be? I know they should be squarely positioned, but how far apart?

And please, no personal attacks!

[cddexter]

Hi olga. I agree this topic got hi-jacked. Maybe take the non-relevent bits and start a new thread?

I do have a bunch of pictures, but they are still packed. I have to be very careful not to identify specific animals. I did up a thing on calving ease, and muscle inheritance, with a pro doing the computer work for me, and that's out there somewhere, if you can find someone with a copy. I gave a copy to all the bod members when Patti did her first pres. on classification for the adca.

Not to pick on anyone...those pics have been posted all over the web. The testicles have a lot of good qualities, but there are also some faults. We've all heard about the good qualities. If one isn't trained to pay attention to the small details, it's easy to overlook them. Most testicles are not 100% balanced; there's usually a slight difference in size, but when you get a clear, obvious disparity, then that's something to breed away from, if you can. We just don't have the cattle numbers to pick and choose as much as the big guys. And, when breeding only a few cows, the bull's not going to run short.

Cows don't hold milk in the body cavity. For an older cow not in full flow, the udder on the g'dam in the pic has held up well. The higher the suspensory ligament goes up the front and back of the scrotum, the more forward in front and the higher in the escutcheon in the cow (and visa versa).

Teats should be on the floor of the bull, not on the neck or body of the scrotum. Their size, placement and length will translate to what the daughters will inherit, and what he inherited from his ancestors. This goes for all the traits, and is why it's so important to pay attention and only use the very best bulls we can find. Nothing much has changed since Robert Bakewell singlehandedly introduced selective breeding to England in the mid 1700's: the way to get the best is to breed the best to the best, and use the result over the herd. This is the basis of all the livestock breeds we have today. c.