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Post by sharethelegacy on Nov 13, 2011 16:07:11 GMT -5
Need a genotype? GOT PURPLE?
Legacy is offering ADCA members who need genotypes on their Dexters while the genotyping machine at the Cothran Lab in Texas is "down" to genotype and upon request submit the UC-Davis genotype to the Texas lab for NO additional charge to the ADCA member. WIN-WIN Your Dexter will be entered into the Legacy "FOREVER" Dexter database housed in the computer of UC-Davis and entered into the Legacy gentoype registry in the Legacy PURPLE!
Legacy services begin at: LegacyDexterCattleRegistry.com - click on the services application Once submitted you will receive the UC-Davis barcoded test form within 24 hours. Once your sample is received at the lab you can expect your results in 5-10 days.
UC-Davis developed the DNA testing technology in cattle SEVEN decades ago - so the experience of their world renowned laboratory cannot be denied. You will not lose by using UC-Davis you will only gain - if you ever need to use your results at ANY other laboratory- - UC-Davis reports on SIXTEEN DNA markers for parentage comparison -more than any other lab being used in the Dexter breed for microsatellite testing. UC-Davis DNA results are accepted by all Dexter groups.
Legacy's acclaimed testing services are going to WOW you!
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Post by Morning Star Farm on Nov 14, 2011 11:41:59 GMT -5
I sent my samples in a couple of weeks ago and had results back within 10 days! I thought that was quick.
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Post by wdd on Nov 14, 2011 15:37:17 GMT -5
I have had testing done through Pfizer, Texas A&M, and UC Davis (Legacy). I have no complaints with any of them. UC Davis results were back quicker than the rest except for one test that I filled out wrong. Judy was able to quickly resolve the issue and the results were returned quickly. Genetic tests are the same as long as proper protocals & standards are in place and followed. Cost, customer service, and trust in those handling/doing the tests are the only deciding factors I look at. I don't agree with Judy on many of her opinions regarding Dexters and Dexter purity and she finds faults with my ideas and feelings concerning Dexters, but I have found no reason yet to mistrust or refuse to do testing with her other than the added cost of transferring Genotyping to Texas A&M which is being waived currently.
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Post by midhilldexters on Nov 15, 2011 7:46:54 GMT -5
I have voiced my concern before about testing through Legacy before, so, just so people are aware I will repeat them.
If you test through Legacysomeone else gets your test results other than you. Why you may ask? I don't know, but on a personal level I am concerned enough to not have MY results going to other people. Results that I have paid for should come to me, then I can release them to who I choose.
At first Legacy were only accepting animals that Judy said "qualified" for the new group she was forming, now she accepts all animals? No idea why the change.
I have made my point and the rest is your own personal choice, if you don't mind other people having your results go for it, but if you test with the ADCA no third party gets your results, just you.
Carol K
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Post by midhilldexters on Nov 15, 2011 12:17:12 GMT -5
I guess you just said the same thing I did, except I just summed it up in one sentence. Test through Legacy and someone else gets your results, test through the ADCA and ONLY YOU get your results.
Carol K
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Post by rezzfullacres on Nov 15, 2011 16:00:36 GMT -5
You can also use this site www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/it is the direct link to U.C. Davis and not through the Legacy Registry. I too have an issue with the way Legacy handles the test results...
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Post by kansasdexters on Nov 15, 2011 16:46:43 GMT -5
I also use the UC-Davis Veterinary Genetics Lab (VGL) directly, as Rezz does. I can immediately print out the forms, pay online for the sample testing with a credit card, and they email me the test results directly in about 5 days after they receive the sample. It couldn't be simpler and there is no third party for the results to go through. When I test directly with UC-Davis, my results are private and they don't go into the Legacy database or to any other individual (except for A2 Beta Casein tests, because the A2 Milk Corp. gets a copy of all these results as part of their agreement with UC-Davis).
The problem that I have with an unaffiliated individual getting my test results is the potential for that individual to abuse the privilege of having that information. The Legacy Dexter Cattle Registry has no governing Board and no oversight. Every test done through Legacy indicates the "Legacy Registrar" as the authorized agent (it says so right on the form) -- and that gives full control of the use of that data to that individual. She can use it however she wants to use it, for her own information, research, publication, whatever. There are no guidelines or constraints on how she can use that data, because there is no governing document, no Board, and no oversight.
So thanks, but no thanks. I really don't want to be wowed (now or in the future). I'd rather just deal directly with the UC-Davis Veterinary Genetics Lab.
Patti
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Post by dexterfarm on Nov 15, 2011 17:32:00 GMT -5
I still dont get it why would anyone be concerned of someone seeing their results. Most people would intend on giving those results to a buyer anyway. The only reason I can see is if someone was intentionally trying to hide pha or something else from a buyer. Just what is it that people are worried about a dna test being used for.
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Post by midhilldexters on Nov 15, 2011 17:36:34 GMT -5
Seriously? I am meant to take what you wrote as gospel? It's beacause of what you write and what Legacy says, that I like people to be aware of the outcome.
If I Test with the ADCA, the lab and me get the result. That's 2 people.
If you Test with Legacy, the lab, Judy and you get the result. That's 3 people.
What don't you get about this? We are just trying to make people aware of who gets their results.
Like Patti has mentioned you can test through UCD on your own, I also do that, but again only the Lab and me get the results.
Carol K
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Post by wdd on Nov 15, 2011 18:30:58 GMT -5
Why are you leaving Chuck Daggett out of your list. You send him all your test results for genotype, color, chondro and PHA, don't you? He's the registrar for the ADCA. Gene, Even testing through Judy, Chuck will eventually gets my results. Legacy does include one extra step (Judy) before your results are sent to you, she owns the results since the tests are run through her. When I had a problem with my test it had to be handled through Judy, the lab wouldn't work with me directly, so therefore I wasn't the submitter nor the owner in their book apparently. I don't feel I have anything to hide so it doesn't bother me if she or others see these test results (thats why I send them to Chuck so they can be shared). If collection of my test results can help the Dexter Breed in anyway, whether it is by being part of a large database or used by a testing lab for research, I have no problem with that. I think much of the backlash against Legacy deals with claims and statements both sides of this issue have made. Neither side trusts the other, whether it is warranted or not. If the ADCA or a sub-group like the Missouri Dexter Breeders decided to they could set up the same service with the same prices Judy was able to negotiate and then those that don't trust Judy could test at UC Davis and send those results on to the ADCA or PDCA if they wished to.
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Post by sharethelegacy on Nov 15, 2011 18:31:02 GMT -5
It was Legacy who first began genotyping in the Legacy breed - as part of a preservation breeding effort to document and add validity to pedigrees- - permanently.
In the beginning it was a dream of Legacy to first genotype all the oldest animals in the breed and eventually the entire breed and have a single repository of Dexter DNA that would exist FOREVER so that the Dexter breed would leave a copy of it's earliest footprints for future owners to reference or renew- depending on the advances of science in "forever". That goal has not changed. Each Dexter genotype is another step towards tomorrow.
In 2004- 2005 the lab of choice for Dexter owners was in Canada. PDCA was using this lab - - ADCA advised it's members "they were unable to get their samples across the border" so ADCA had NO lab. Legacy wished to keep the US Dexter herd samples in the US and chose UC-Davis, a laboratory that enjoyed a world wide reputation of excellence and had been testing many breeds of livestock for decades and maintaining databases for breed groups.
Legacy was the first voice in the Dexter breed to encourage breeders to genotype and parentage confirm their herds. Any researcher of pedigrees soon heard story after story of "supposed" outcrossings and sloppy breeding practices where bulls of different breeds had access to the same cattle, blah, blah, blah. Some of it being factual, some of it destructive gossip. Dexters and their owners and breeders were belittled and riduculed externally and internally. The solution. Prove the pedigrees - preserve the bloodline record.
Legacy approached BOTH existing Dexter associations and suggested that it would be in the best interests of the Dexter breed and it's breeders to establish a SINGLE database of DNA samples for parentage comparisons. ( We can talk about the hope for future research on the breed in another thread). PDCA was using Canada at the time and did not wish to change. ADCA was fearful that Wes Patton ( PDCA) would somehow be able to have access to ADCA samples and for that reason would not use UC-Davis. Needing a lab for ADCA members someone with knowledge of/or affiliation with. . . contacted Gus Cothran and worked with him to set up cattle testing. That scattered samples in three locations, and then Igenity made four some years later.
Legacy continued ( don't forget the Legacy genotyping effort began in 2004) to encourage breeders to validate the parentage of their herds and develop integrity in the breed's bloodlines. The effort was joined by Legacy preservation effort breeders as well as other breeders who believed it added integrity for their herds and for the Dexter breed. ALL Dexters entered/registered in the Legacy genotype database are genotyped and ALL offspring are parentage confirmed.
As the database grew ADCA realized it's significance and it's importance to the breed and decisions were made to implement required testing for ADCA bulls.
The ADCA system. Get forms, fill them out, mail to the ADCA liason to the lab who has access to the samples and test forms and then hand delivers to the lab with full access to the lab itself. Results are then mailed to the owner who is required to send the result to the registrar. This is an administrative trail.
The Legacy system. A Legacy services application is completed on the website and the information entered into the computer system at UC-Davis which generates a bar-coded test form then emailed to the owner. The owner attaches the sample ( never seen or touched by Legacy except on any occasion where an owner asks Legacy to do their paperwork for them and mails to Legacy) and the owner mails the test form and sample to UC-Davis where it is logged into the system and tracked each step of the way through the process by the barcode. When the test is complete results are emailed to Legacy and forwarded to the owner. Legacy IS a genotype and parentage database. If you want a herd of integrity and validity you have to do the testing, and someone ( administration) has to see the results to confirm the requirements are met. Whether it is Chuck in ADCA or Judy in Legacy - - the paperpushers have to push the paper, collect the money, and pay the bills.
Now to the paper-pushers. The ADCA liason has access to samples - and to the lab. Has there been a public disclaimer that the lab liason does not have access or knowledge of results? The ADCA registrar has access to results. The Legacy registrar has access to results.
Now to the results. ADCA has signed a contract with a Texas research firm, ( Texas-Agrilife) giving permission to do ANY type of research on these samples and results. The head of the ADCA lab has admitted to doing research on these samples and results. Pedigree committee members have confirmed this. Whether the chairs of pedigree have access to results has never been made public.
Legacy has from the beginning insisted that biological materials and results belong to the OWNER of the sample. ( The owner is the person who pays for the test- but in the case of Legacy if a sample is requested for parentage issues or other reason and Legacy pays for the test - Legacy cedes ownership to the owner of the Dexter as a matter of Legacy choice and principlel) Legacy does NOT nor does UC-Davis use samples paid for and submitted by Legacy participants for research. Period. Legacy has insisted from the moment the database was established that ownership of the samples be safeguarded and protected and is adament about this because it is and always has been the normal scientific standard in the genetic community. YOU pay - YOU own. No wiggle room. Legacy has consistently objected and argued against ownership of samples that are paid for by owners who are required to submit for any reason be used for research.
As to results. Unless you are a scientist doing research with a DNA/scientific background they mean nothing. Nothing! DNA in cattle is for parentage confirmation. Know what a marker is? It is basically the length of the DNA chain within the marker category. Length. Not the color of eyes or the size of testicle or attachment of the udder. Merely the measured length of the DNA chain. Daddy had two, Mommy has two and baby gets one from each and they need to match. ( Simple explanation- but it serves to show how silly it is for someone to think their markers mean much more than who's my Daddy or who's my Mommy). The only reason I can think of to be concerned about someone seeing results is if there is a problem with the results! An average person cannot discern anything about a Dexter from their DNA markers. PHA, Chondro, are different. These tells a story of as to the presence of a defect. Some owners disclose. Some don't. Legacy has to have a request in writing to post these results. As distasteful as it is to those who think it should be mandatory - let's relate it to human lethal and contagious disease. It is not required to be disclosed. There are CIVIL actions available for those who do not disclose and/or act in ways that might carry consequences whether in animals or humans. Legacy works for YOU. A stronger commitment to honesty, ethics, and excellence doesn't exist. One need only ask those who have experienced Legacy to know the truth of this statement.
One more important thing to make clear. Some of the negativity and destructive commentary stems from politics. Legacy established the preservation effort and genotype database at a time when the Dexter breed was badly fractured. It was hoped to serve as a means of pulling all Dexter owners towards a single goal that served the best interests of the breed and the breeders. Legacy is not an association, has no members. Legacy is a seperate entity. It was designed to build a DNA record of all Dexters without membership or political heirarchy. To serve the interests of the Legacy goal and the interests of the Associations, the cost had to be kept low so that the average owner could afford to genotype and place their Dexter in the "forever" bank and still register and participate in their association of choice, and in some instances to gather Dexters that whose bloodlines were going to be lost to the breed because of members who were shunning the political organizations/associations.
Judy Chief paper-pusher/'spokesperson Legacy
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Post by midhilldexters on Nov 15, 2011 19:06:23 GMT -5
Gene, I have the choice if I send results to Chuck, you don't, that's the whole point. Trying to say I don't like Judy and that is why I brought this to peoples attention is uncalled for, don't try and start stuff that doesn't exist.
Carol K
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Post by midhilldexters on Nov 15, 2011 19:27:25 GMT -5
Hey Judy, what will happen to Legacy and test results if something were to stop you from dealing with it. Are there provisions to help these people that have all tested through Legacy and are unable to deal directly with the lab?
Carol K
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Post by rezzfullacres on Nov 15, 2011 19:45:04 GMT -5
This is one of my issues, Legacy has decided polled is not a "real" dexter, upgraded is the key word. Although I breed horned animals my feeling is that this stepped over the line from stewardship to personal preference and bias.. The following is from the Legacy site>>>
Legacy is currently urging breeders to be aware of the crisis and very real threat to the traditional horned Dexter bloodlines due to excessive crossing with polled ( upgraded) bloodlines. It took less than 1/2 century for the devastation of horned Hereford lines when polled animals were introduced to that breed and there were hundreds of thousands of Herefords. The Dexter breed will be decimated in less than a generation at the rate of introgression currently taking place and a lack of leadership within the breed to offer guidance or education to breeders.
____________________________________________
This is the point, what is the desired end result and who decides??? One person or many breed associations run by board of directors!! The same goes for Chondro & PHA who knows where this will end up....But I knew where this thread was going to go and I should have known better, sorry to have contributed to the disfunction
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Post by sharethelegacy on Nov 15, 2011 21:25:48 GMT -5
Patti -As a member of the ADCA genetics committee thank you for substantiating by action and word for those on this forum the Legacy position that UC Davis' decades of experience and expertise makes for an excellent choice when choosing a laboratory for genetic testing. The decision by Legacy to use the Veterinary Genetics laboratory of UC-Davis for the repository of the Dexter DNA " Forever" database was a wise one for the Dexter breed and it's owner's. Carol - Legacy would hope that Gus Cothran enjoys the benefit of perfect health into very old age - but should he have a serious health failure what is ADCA going to do? Paper-pusher's are replaceable but the owner and primary scientist of a lab is another story. Regarding the Legacy database- if a time ever arrives when UC-Davis goes down the tubes we all better be begging Scotty to beam us up! Hopefully Legacy will enjoy the same longevity and plans are in place and in the works that will see to it. Now to the main thrust of the few in the minority who test privately and do not share their results. What YOU do not have is a public record. To have a public record you have to show your results to someone. In ADCA, as I understand from reading this thread that would be Chuck. I would imagine testing and not recording the results defeats the purpose of ADCA requiring the test? I am left to assume that the purpose of testing privately is the expertise of the lab? In fact. . . the most important thing you do not have when you test privately is purple. GOT PURPLE? Legacy Purple speaks to integrity of pedigree and signifies responsibility in breeding with an added benefit of bloodline characteristics. Legacy purple is spreading across pedigrees and Legacy hopes will turn to green for Dexter breeders who have herds whose pedigrees and bloodlines are multiple generation confirmed. ( Legacy helps breeders accomplish this because it is considered so important). Legacy has been extremely thoughtful and innovative to help Dexters and their owners market a trustworthy package which goes far beyond a trail of authenticated parentage. Being able to track bloodline characteristics across a breed is revolutionary in Dexters. What a fantastic modern tool! When you have multiple generations of confirmed parentage both sire and dam bloodline traits are easily traceable for breeding decisions. For those who are negative based on personality or politics( including power/control issues). . please stop and think about the wonderful good Legacy has brought to Dexters. Legacy is working for full blood Dexters, Legacy is working for traditional Dexters and . . yes. . .. Legacy works for polled Dexters and their owners. That you are angry that there is discussion of upgraded genetics - - is silly. If you have them, own them, make the most of it but don't be angry with Legacy for urging that purity also be recognized and maintained. Legacy has been in the forefront of every modern advancement that is good for Dexters and their breeders. The existing associations should be working WITH Legacy - not against. . because Legacy has been working and paving the way for them. Judy Legacy spokesperson/paperpusher
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