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Post by laughingllama75 on Nov 29, 2011 21:14:07 GMT -5
Ok, the test that came back said this: E+/e b/b Comment: RED animal is homozygous for DUN
hoping someone can tell me please what it means? Thanks!
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Post by kansasdexters on Nov 29, 2011 22:29:42 GMT -5
Hi Alicia,
E+/e, b/b means that your animal is homozygous for red and also homozygous for dun. Because DUN can only be expressed if the animal has at least one dominant black gene (ED), and your animal doesn't have any black gene (since it's homozygous for RED); your animal is considered to be genetically RED and would be registered as RED.
The "E+" gene is called the "wild red" gene and the "e" gene is called the "true red" gene. Your animal has one of each of these red genes in the gene pair at the RED/BLACK locus. The dun gene "b" is located on a different chromosome from the red (or black) genes. If your animal's color type had an "ED" (dominant black) gene instead of "E+", or instead of the "e"; then your animal would be dun, since it is homozygous for dun (b/b).
Patti
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Post by laughingllama75 on Nov 29, 2011 22:46:02 GMT -5
Thank You!
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Post by cddexter on Dec 4, 2011 11:27:49 GMT -5
and, to be really correct, the E+ is actually called a 'wild' gene, not a wild red gene, because while it is expressed as red in Dexters, it can be any color. That's why it's called 'wild': it is different between breeds, but the same within a breed. For instance, Jerseys and Brown Swiss are both homozygous for E+ and they are taupe/brown, not red. Limousin also carry E+, but in them it is expressed as black. In Holsteins the 'wild' gene is black with red highlights, at the mane and forelock hair. Not sure about Angus, but Hereford 'wild' is red, too, just like it is in Dexters.
When referring just to Dexters, both genes produce the same color (you can have variations in the tone in both cases), so to the average person, the animal is 'red' regardless of which genes it carries. Most people don't bother to distinguish between the two.
John Potter wrote up a good description and explanation on the Genetics page of the ADCA website dextercattle.org if you want more info.
What makes the whole thing even harder, when talking Dexter coat colors, is there are two different ways of looking at the issue: visually (what you see in front of you), and genetically (what the genes really are). You get black (dominant), red (recessive) and wild (dominant, too) at the base coat color locus.
There is a really offbeat dominance issue with the three visible Dexter colors. Black is a dominant gene, so usually if there is even one black gene, the animal will be black. Wild is also considered a dominant gene, but when coupled with black, black overrides it (I guess you could say the black is more dominant that the wild?). When wild is coupled with dun (brown, actually, and not dun at all) and there is no black gene, the wild is expressed as the dominant, and it overrides the brown. Ditto recessive red.
Brown is a recessive gene. Unless both genes at that locus are brown, because it is recessive, you won't visibly see it. But, if you have homozygous brown at the secondary locus, and the primary locus has even one black gene (black/black or black/red or black/wild) the animal will be brown. If you have a 'dun' animal you know it has to have at least one black gene. If you have a 'red' animal, hyou know it doesn't have a black gene, but it could carry one or two brown genes. It's crazy.
enjoy....c.
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Post by RockingE6 on Feb 16, 2012 14:36:43 GMT -5
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Post by lakeportfarms on Feb 16, 2012 14:51:17 GMT -5
This is your other bull??? No wonder you are not interested in purchasing the one in the auction barn thread!!! He is a nice looking boy.
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Post by RockingE6 on Feb 16, 2012 14:54:16 GMT -5
yes this is the my other bull...he is the nicest bull we looked at. He was the first Dexter we purchased and we love him to death. He can be in the front pasture when you go out and call his name....he'll bring the whole herd up...lol. Thank you for the compliment...I was wondering what other Dexter owners would think of him.
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Post by Olga on Feb 16, 2012 17:12:09 GMT -5
If your bull is E+/e he is red and should be listed as such in the online registry. You just need to submit the copy of the test to the registrar.
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Post by legendrockranch on Feb 16, 2012 17:47:54 GMT -5
RockingE6,
Make sure you have WMA Tiernans genotype done, as of today there is no listing on the ADCA website saying he's on file or sire qualified. Thankfully his sire is already listed. That is if you want to have any of his progeny registered with the ADCA.
Barb
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Post by goldshaftdexters on Feb 16, 2012 17:53:48 GMT -5
Carol D If I understand this mating a dun to a dun you have a 25% chance of getting a black, unlike red to red you can only get red? Andrea
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Post by bruff64 on Feb 16, 2012 18:02:26 GMT -5
Is it the E+ gene that produces the red with brindle highlights and also the dark head color. Is this considered the original red of the Dexter breed historically. Also, I see some Reds have light nose color and others black noses. Any significance?
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Post by cddexter on Feb 16, 2012 18:03:20 GMT -5
nope. if the animal is visually dun, then it is homo for the gene. If you put two duns together, you will probably get dun: the qualifier is that if both the parents are hetero black/red, homo dun, you could get a 25% chance of a red. hoho. got it. ;D
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Post by goldshaftdexters on Feb 16, 2012 19:00:13 GMT -5
Carol - But you say a dun carries the black gene so how come not? I'm confused! But I think I get it now....
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Post by RockingE6 on Feb 16, 2012 20:59:34 GMT -5
So is the "brindle"' look common? I didn't see it in too many that I looked at but liked the look on him. Any comments about his look would be greatly appreciated. I purchased him to be my herd sire although he is the first Dexter that I bought. All of the cows that I bought are bred by other bulls most of which have been geno typed. As I am wanting to grow a nice herd I would like any feed back as to what others think of him.
Semper Fi!
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Post by kansasdexters on Feb 16, 2012 21:38:09 GMT -5
Rocking E6,
The brindle color pattern is not seen very often in Dexters, but it does occur in certain pedigree lines (including Lucifer of Knotting). The breed description for Dexter cattle calls for the breed to be either wholly black, red, or dun; so patterned animals (brindled, spotted, excessive white markings) are considered less desirable than solid colored animals that conform with the breed description.
Red brindled Dexters have at least one E+ gene, in order to express the brindle color pattern. So they are either E+/E+ or E+/e , and in either case, they are considered red. An animal that is e/e (true red), may have the brindle gene, but it will not be expressed. So many generations can occur before the right combination happens and the brindle gene shows itself.
Brindle is an ancient color pattern. There were brindled Kerry cattle known and written about in the 1800's (the Kerry is considered to be one of the predecessors of the Dexter). Icelandic cattle were brought to Iceland by the Vikings over a thousand years ago, and some of their descendents express brindle today. The Vikings had settlements along the coast of Scotland and Ireland, so it is very likely that some of the cattle taken by the Vikings to Iceland came from those areas.
People that are selecting and breeding to conform with the accepted Dexter breed description for color, will avoid producing patterned animals as registered breeding stock. People that are selecting and breeding Dexters to please themselves, don't really care what the breed description says. The color genotype will indicate that the animal is red and it can be registered as red (whether or not it is brindled), as long as it meets the other requirements for registration.
Patti
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