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Post by namrepus on Sept 30, 2007 19:20:04 GMT -5
My cows have a LOT of grass, so much that I have to mow it in sections so it won't get to high.
they eat the heck out of it but every one is still skinny with bones/ribs showing through.
one small one died, from what appears to me to be starvation even after all the food. the other young guys are so thin i pulled them out and started feeding feed and hay to them in a pen.
It has been raining every single day for a month so the grass is growing good, but still they won't put on weight.
I have wormed them and given a shot of antibiotics thinking that might be the problem but after two weeks noticed no improvement. the two i penned up are getting a little more active but not putting on much weight).
any ideas??
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Post by legendrockranch on Sept 30, 2007 20:30:29 GMT -5
Call you vet!
Sorry to hear of your problems, hope things turn around.
We've had lots of rain here also, that might make the grass grow, but the nutrient value is very low. My pastures are native grasses and weeds, lots of weeds just due to all the rain.
Have you considered using a protein tub? We've had 20% protein tubs out all year.
Worming them I can see doing, but why the antibiotics?
Wish I could be more help, hopefully someone else will chime in with more info.
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Post by legendrockranch on Sept 30, 2007 20:39:46 GMT -5
On a side note, even though you are feeding hay to them, the hay also might be of poor quality. If buying in large quantities it would be worth you while to have your hay tested "Forage/Feed Analysis". We have our tested through Texas A&M.
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Post by Olga on Oct 1, 2007 9:39:21 GMT -5
Tractor Supply has a very nice all natural 16% protein tub with molasses that my cows love. Try to also provide a free-choice mineral mix. A mineral defficiency causes bad food absorbtion. What wormer did you use? A lot of the pour-ons aren't as effective as an injectable. Try Dectomax injectable, or Cydectin, although more expensive. Both should be fine as long as you're not milking cows. As far as I know, no injectable is approved for lactating dairy cows. But injectables are fine for cattle used for beef and , especially Cydectin, have very short slaughter withdrawal times.
In the mean time, if you have some animals that look like they need to put on some meat on their bones NOW! or they may die, I would buy a bag of Calf Manna *about 20 bucks*. A lot of people swear by it, myself included. I think even a cup full twice a day would help.
In addition to the injectable wormer, you could by a big jug of molasses *about 7 bucks at the coop for a gallon jug, may be bigger* and add that to the feed along with a cup-full of D.E. and a cup-full of soybean meal. Mix it up and give it to all your animals. D.E. will help with parasites in the gut and soybean meal is very high in protein, that's why you don't need much of it. Cotton seed meal is very high in protein too, but a lot of "natural" people don't use it because for such a high potential of contamination with pesticides. Cotton isn't grown for animal feed, so there aren't as strict of regulations and they use some mean pesticides on it that aren't necessarily approved or tested for animals.
So to sum up my suggestions on feed, take the grain you're already feeding (or if your cattle don't get grain, you can get a relatively cheap horse and cattle feed with molasses, about 12%; look for something all-grain) and add a cup per animal of Calf Manna. Then add a cup of soybean meal and a cup of D.E. to the whole mix. Pour on some molasses, may be a cup, enough to make the soybean meal and D.E. stick to the feed. You can even dilute the molasses 50/50 or so to make it easier to mix. Wet feed is fine as long as you make it for them to eat right away and it doesn't sit and spoil.
There's been some talk about acorn poisonning on the Family Cow Board. If you have lots of acorns this year - most of us don't due to the late freeze in April, I think, - your cows could be eating too many and getting tannin poisonning. Calves especially are succeptible. Same thing for wild cherry trees - they'll loose weight in a heart beat when eating their leaves.
If I were you I would follow Barb's advice and get a good vet (with references from a commercial beef or dairy farm) to come out to see your pasture and your cows.
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Post by legendrockranch on Oct 1, 2007 22:01:31 GMT -5
I took this off of one of the other cattle forums
HAY QUALITY IMPACTED BY FIVE FACTORS
by: Chuck Coffey Noble Foundation
Of all the feedstuffs livestock consume, hay is probably one of the most variable in terms of quality. Hay can look good and still be low quality, or look bad and be good quality. The best way to know for sure is to have it tested. However, many people never take the time to send off a sample for analysis. What are the factors affecting the quality of hay?
Stage of Maturity: This refers to the growth stage of the plant at the time of harvest. Stage of maturity is by far the most important factor influencing quality. The younger the plant, the higher the quality. I've actually seen common bermudagrass test greater than 20 percent crude protein on a dry matter basis. If you want to harvest or purchase good quality hay, pay particular attention to maturity. In southern Oklahoma, we can expect to harvest decent quality bermudagrass if it's cut prior to mid June. If you delay much beyond that time, quality rapidly begins declining with the first cutting.
Leafiness: This refers to the proportion of leaves versus stems present and is also related to the stage of maturity, especially in grass hays. The younger the plant, the greater the proportion of leaves. As a grass matures, stems increase or are elevated, thus decreasing the quality of the forage.
Color: Color is not always a good indicator of quality. Color often tells us more about the curing process of the hay than its quality. Hay that is bright green was typically cut at a desirable stage of maturity and rapidly cured. Yellow color is often a result of sun bleaching and does not seriously reduce quality. Brownish hay is usually a result of excessive moisture during the curing process, thus indicating some degree of fermentation. Dark brown or black is often an indicator that the hay was exposed to rain or high humidity and is usually accompanied by a distinctive musty odor. Overall, slight discolorations from sun bleaching, dew or moderate fermentation are not as serious as the loss of green color from maturity, rain damage or excessive heating or fermentation.
Foreign Matter: This typically includes materials that are wasted in the feeding process. Weeds are the biggest problem in our area, but sometimes, injurious materials such as threeawn, sandburs and poisonous plants can be found. Always inspect hay for foreign matter.
Odor and Condition: Use the smell of newly mown hay as your standard of comparison. Hays with off odors such as mildew, mustiness or rotten odors often indicate reduced quality and acceptance by livestock. And finally, soft, pliable hays are typically more palatable than hard, firm hays.
Remember, stage of maturity is the most important factor affecting hay quality and will also affect leafiness, color and condition. However, the only way to truly know the quality of hay you plan to buy, sell or feed is to have it tested.
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Post by triangles on Oct 4, 2007 9:51:53 GMT -5
We had a problem with very similar symptoms to what you are describing and it turned out to be liver flukes. Check your wormer to make sure it covers liver flukes. the only thing we found that works is injectable Ivomec PLUS. We lost 4 old cows and two youngsters before we figured it out. I hope this helps.
Wes Triangle S Ranch
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Post by fuzzy on Oct 4, 2007 10:38:14 GMT -5
If an animal has all of the grass which they need and is still loosing weight then the irst place to look is to make sure that they do not have a high parisite load. Use a good anthelmentic and put them on a higher plane of nutrition.
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Post by namrepus on Oct 10, 2007 23:12:45 GMT -5
another young calf went down despite my best efforts. so found and called a vet in. (been looking two years for one in my area which worked on something besides dogs and cats). after much chidding about weaning them to early, turned out to be intestinal parasites, several different. so, he showed me the proper way to administer the worm medicine. i used an oral administered tube, and didn't put it in the back of the throat far enough, the three youngest ones evidently spit it out when I wormed them a month ago. (all the others are in great shape). (everybody got a new dose after that of course) also learned how to drench them. lost that calf too unfortunately. I won't lose that third one, though he would probably be down by now if I hadn't called in someone who know what he was doing. he got, wormed, drenched, gets round the clock feed, free choice minerals, and once a day gets 2 quarts of milk replacer.
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Post by copperhead on Oct 11, 2007 9:45:13 GMT -5
I realize this is after the fact, but I want to say to any one raising any type of animal, if they are getting lots of feed and losing weight or, God forbid, dying.. do not, wait around. Call a vet, something is wrong and it has nothing to do with the ammount of feed. Cows don't stand in belly deep grass and starve to death, it's almost always parasites. People who are new to raising animals, don't always know how to administer medicines or wormers, you have to get advise from someone who does, a neighbor with cattle, even the local dog and cat vet should be able to get you hooked up with someone who can help. This is just a tragedy that you had to lose your animals just because you didn't know how to worm them, I'm so sorry. Please don't think I'm bashing you, I want the new people who are just starting out with cattle to learn just how important is it to get all the help you can because it's not only heartbreaking, it's a d**n expensive lesson. Again, I'm so sorry .P.J.
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Post by siyabonga on May 30, 2008 5:41:49 GMT -5
AT LAST I FIND HELP!!! ACTUALLY I'M LOOKING TOR THE AVERAGE DAILY GAIN,S FOR DEXTER AND HEREFORD CATTLE.
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Honeycreek Dexters
member
All Natural Drug Free Grass Fed Beef, From Our Herd Sire Phoenix
Posts: 362
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Post by Honeycreek Dexters on Jun 4, 2008 21:02:20 GMT -5
dear superman or what ever, our animals have never seen a feed bucket or a grain of corn and they are fat and sassy. millions of cows lived off grass before white man came to this continent. if your cows(Dexters) are not thriving on forage then you need to have a vet tell you what is wrong. don't guess, don't cut corners, pay the fee and find out what is wrong and correct it. i have a strong hunch you are a troll or some one of that ilk. if not i apologize. but your post sounds suspicious for some one that has several animals but doesn't seem to know basic nutritional information. HCD
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Post by wstevenl on Jun 5, 2008 10:23:57 GMT -5
"millions of cows lived off grass before white man came to this continent." Do you mean buffalo? I don't think that there were cows here until the white and slightly reddish man brought them. Same with horses.
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Honeycreek Dexters
member
All Natural Drug Free Grass Fed Beef, From Our Herd Sire Phoenix
Posts: 362
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Post by Honeycreek Dexters on Jun 5, 2008 13:55:45 GMT -5
Please let me amend the word millions to "a lot" we all know the Spanish introduced cattle to N. Amr. And the Europeans imported them in-mass before 1640 a.d. Your right i wasn't there so i cant definitely say there was a million. no i'm not talking about buffalo, are you talking about bison? but that does not mean my point is not valid. this person has asked for and received good advice from respected breeders on this board and by his own admission has produced calves it just seems strange to me to read the last post with out having some skepticism. i'm not going to argue with you and i offered my apologies ahead of time. i was just stating my opinion. HCD
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Post by wstevenl on Jun 5, 2008 16:04:13 GMT -5
You're right, your point is valid. I just thought I'd point out that "white man" brought cattle here so yes, maybe cattle were thriving on grass at that time, but not here. All things that I'm sure you know already, just might not of though of it when you typed that comment.
And yes I meant bison. lol
Did a post get deleted that I'm not able to read? What was "the last post"? Do you mean the one where he/she said that yet another calf had died?
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Post by onthebit on Jun 6, 2008 9:58:40 GMT -5
I can't believe someone would let that many animals die BEFORE calling a vet....even if the cattle were of poor quality they should still have been worth quite a bit more than the vets bill...so he/she lost a bunch and then still had to get the vet...doesn't make sense to me!
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