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Post by ctownson on Feb 13, 2013 5:03:21 GMT -5
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Post by midhilldexters on Feb 13, 2013 6:25:42 GMT -5
thanks Charles.
Carol K
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Post by ctownson on Feb 13, 2013 6:54:28 GMT -5
Hope you are doing better Carol after last week.
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Post by rezzfullacres on Feb 13, 2013 7:17:11 GMT -5
Thank you for takng the time to post this...It does make the vision a little clearer....
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Post by midhilldexters on Feb 13, 2013 10:22:37 GMT -5
Hi Charles, yeah we are plugging along, thank you.
Carol
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Post by Cascade Meadows Farm - Kirk on Feb 16, 2013 1:19:37 GMT -5
Do you have any idea what a nightmare it would be for one lab to try to compare to another lab without a standard panel of markers identified and implemented? Now for the BIG problem. Do you know how many genotypes are on file with ADCA? Legacy is nearing the middle of 1300-1400. Do you realize not a single one of these tests can be compared with SNPS? I was asked by the head of the UCD lab when told they would be willing to switch the testing to SNPS for Legacy, " but who is going to pay for the retests"? Who indeed? I'm not paying to retest my herd for a technology I simply do not need nor has anyone convinced me is needed in this breed. Judy Sponaugle 1. We need to use one single lab for all tests just like the Angus folks do and the Hereford folks do (need to merge the American registries too, it's a silly tangled mess that won't last forever anyway). 2. We'll be moving to SNP sooner or later whether we like it or not, just like the world moved away from floppy disks and VHS tapes to CDs/DVDs. I'm sure there are still a few folks clinging to their VHS tapes somewhere, but they're dying off quickly. 3. We don't need to redo every animal under SNP (don't need to redo grandparents nor great-grandparents and don't need to redo animals no longer breeding). Only need to re-do active breeders (mostly bulls at this point). 4. The huge MAJORITY of folks have only genotyped bulls so far. So not much rework is needed to switch to SNP if we do it BEFORE we start female testing. 5. We'll regret it very much if we press forward in genotyping all the females under the old outdated microsatellite method only to then switch to SNP down the road. We currently have a relatively small number of animals that need to be redone under SNP. If we press forward with genotyping all females under microsatellite, then we'll have huge numbers to be redone when we switch to SNP. Just ask the Hereford folks. 6. At some point in the future, there will be a single SNP panel for Genotype, Dun, Extension Locus (black/red), Polled, A2, Chondro 1, Chondro 2, PHA, and other coming defect genes to be found. A single hair submission and a single test run will give us everything we need.
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Post by wvdexters on Feb 16, 2013 9:38:53 GMT -5
I am a small landholder with only a few dexters. I have been keeping up with this debate and I am still not convinced we need to switch to SNPs at this time. Dexters are not a commercial breed and we need to keep in mind that the majority of owners chose this breed because of this fact.
Perhaps the best thing to do at this time is to give the lab a chance to do their work. Genebo believes they are working towards a way to reconcile the two types of testing. This would be a wonderful accomplishment; a real step.
WHY the rush?
Perhaps we as an assoc should slow down here. There is a lot of wisdom on this forum. Many different view points. We need to listen to them all, and weigh our decisions.
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Post by cddexter on Feb 16, 2013 10:50:14 GMT -5
Dexters are not a commercial breed and we need to keep in mind that the majority of owners chose this breed because of this fact.
ummm, somehow I doubt this statement. Anything you can provide to support it?
I'm more inclined to think it's small size, 'cute' dwarfs, 'saving' rare, and personality, and not much to do with anything else.
cheers, c.
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Post by Cascade Meadows Farm - Kirk on Feb 16, 2013 11:56:36 GMT -5
I am a small landholder with only a few dexters. I have been keeping up with this debate and I am still not convinced we need to switch to SNPs at this time. Dexters are not a commercial breed and we need to keep in mind that the majority of owners chose this breed because of this fact. Perhaps the best thing to do at this time is to give the lab a chance to do their work. Genebo believes they are working towards a way to reconcile the two types of testing. This would be a wonderful accomplishment; a real step. WHY the rush? Perhaps we as an assoc should slow down here. There is a lot of wisdom on this forum. Many different view points. We need to listen to them all, and weigh our decisions. 1. Most All the other key associations/labs have been switching to SNP over the past 6 years or longer so it's not a new technology. SNP is much better and more accurate technology and is where the world is going. 2. You can only partially reconcile SNP with Microsatellite in a single direction, but NOT back and forth. SNP testing looks at the detailed "spelling" of the genetic code, while Microsatellite testing does not. With SNP detail tests you could make a somewhat reasonable guess of what an animal's microsatellite results might be (but not with great accuracy). But with microsatellite tests (lacking details), any guess about the SNP detail data would be an error-prone affair. The Hereford and Angus folks have studied this to death over the past 5 years. 3. If everyone slowed down on genotyping females, then we could slow down on switching to SNP. It would be a major costly mistake to genotype all females under the outdated and dying microsatellite technology, and then have to redo them all under SNP. We need to either slow down on testing all females, or speed up with switching to SNP.
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Gorignak
member
Farm Facebook page is now up. Stop by and say HI !!
Posts: 569
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Post by Gorignak on Feb 16, 2013 12:23:21 GMT -5
aaaarrrrrgggghhhhh ??!!!! My head is going to explode.......
From Clueless in the Cascades
AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHH........blam (head exploding)....I'm done for..... I have thousands of VHS tapes.....all the choice old classics that won't make it to DVD any time soon.....and I don't have long, according to Kirk. I need to laugh....wait, I'll just pull out my VHS of "Some Like it Hot". AAAAHHHHH that's better .....I feel somewhat revived.
REVIVED enough to ask just where the hell your qualification to assign longevity, or lack of, to any class or group comes from......switch your incense Kirk. My GGG Grandmother ..... "Delilah Hawkins" was born in 1762 and died in 1868......her daughter Elizabeth (one of 14 children) died on a Wagon Train at the age of 84 headed for Oregon, and was buried, ".....somewhere along the trail near Gunnison Colorado". No need to send flowers anytime soon Kirk. At 64, I have the Med profile of an 18 year old Marine.......
Oh, and the "Clueless in the Cascades" just popped into my head because I treated the wife to a couple bottles of wine and a private viewing of our VHS copy of "Sleepless in Seattle" on Valentine's Day. GREAT piece of fluff, that one is.
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Post by marion on Feb 16, 2013 13:17:50 GMT -5
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Post by wvdexters on Feb 16, 2013 14:37:23 GMT -5
My goodness. It seems I used the wrong description. Sorry. I have seen the word used many times on this forum and thought it was a good choice for this discussion.
When I think of commercial cattle breeds I think of angus, hereford, holstein etc. Cattle that are bred for either beef or dairy, but bred by the big operations. The big ranches and the large commercial dairies. Dexters do not fit into these molds. Some of these operations have thousands of head of cattle. I know of no dexter outfits that even approach these numbers.
Dexters have many great attributes many of which you mention here. I would also ad lesser feed and pasture requirements to your list. They are truly wonderful animals. I agree that these facts are the reasons why people come to Dexters. They are wonderful homestead cows. Perfect for the small land holder or hobbyist, or the person who just wants a few head of cattle for his own families needs.
Because of these facts I agree with the many others who have used these words and described dexters as not a commercial breed of cattle.
As for the question of genotyping and SNPs and all this. This is a very important subject. What is wrong with slowing down? What is wrong with calling for people to stop and think about all of this before we go and make a decision. Any decision either way is premature at this time. We do not have all the facts yet. It seems that the labs themselves are not firmly behind us making a switch at this time. They have much more work to do.
The registry needs to do its due diligence and be sure they are making the Best Decision. The best decision for everyone involved. This thing could blow up into a huge mess if the wrong decision is made or if it is implemented incorrectly.
We must also remember that many of our fellow members are against moving in this direction at all much less what method is used. These people have a right to be heard also. Their views are just as important as those being addressed here.
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Post by Cascade Meadows Farm - Kirk on Feb 16, 2013 15:50:57 GMT -5
I'm done for..... I have thousands of VHS tapes.....all the choice old classics that won't make it to DVD any time soon. Actually, when we switch to SNP, 100% of our old classic parentage verifications under old microsatellite technology will still be valid and useful, just like old VHS tapes can still used (as long as you have vintage tape machines from the last century). When we switch to SNP, only the new calves will need to be parentage verified in the SNP format. No existing parentage verifications will need to be redone. But to parentage test the new calves, you'll need SNP genotypes on just the parents of those new calves. So your stacks of old microsatellite parentage verifications and your stacks of VHS tapes will remain useful. PS. Long before you die (hopefully), we'll likely have all of the movies you enjoy online so you won't need tapes nor discs nor special hardware to watch them.
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Post by dexterfarm on Feb 16, 2013 15:56:00 GMT -5
wvdexters, I and everyone else on here knew what you meant when you referred to commercial cattle. But some here have to find something to argue about. Goodd thhing youu didnt spelll anyythingg wroong.
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Post by dexterfarm on Feb 16, 2013 16:14:03 GMT -5
kirk, "2. We'll be moving to SNP sooner or later whether we like it or not, just like the world moved away from floppy disks and VHS tapes to CDs/DVDs. I'm sure there are still a few folks clinging to their VHS tapes somewhere, but they're dying off quickly"
I don't know how you can be so sure of this. Maybe it will move on to this some time way down the road maybe it will not. But I cant see it anytime soon. If we are going to compare this to technology there is so much technology latest and greatst that gets left by the way side and forgotten. Maybe there will be yet a 3rd yet undiscovered technology that will win the race and 20 years down the road SNP will be forgotten and we will all be looking back on this day saying remember when SNP was suppose to be the next great thing. How many out there have beta machines and 10" laser disk players sitting in there basements because they were the latest greatest at the time.
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