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Post by midhilldexters on Jun 6, 2013 17:00:32 GMT -5
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Gorignak
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Post by Gorignak on Jun 7, 2013 10:35:02 GMT -5
THANKS Carol.....That is a link to an uplifting operation. I do like being right. The seeds of discord were sown when I posted that I "mowed" down my Fescue.....DUH....I mowed down my fescue that was over mature and headed for "less than sawdust" protein. I now have a 4 acre field of 8" - 12" Fescue, "thicker than the hair on a dog's back", and back to being both edible and moderately nutritious for my Dexters. I love the guys methodology.....I am committed to the concept of rotational grazing....and I hope to live to bear witness to the soundness of the concept....IN 15 YEARS....(I'll be 79). I was a "tree farmer" for 38 years.....climate change has forced other changes in MY life. My fields will be littered with stumps for a decade. THE LINK THAT CAROL POSTED IS A NO-NONSENSE OVERVIEW OF AN EXCELLENT "NEW-AGE....TINFOIL HAT" CONCEPT THAT IS WORKING BETTER THAN PLANNED. IT IS A "MUST READ" FOR ALL WHO ASPIRE TO HEALTHY CATTLE AND PASTURES. Seeing as how Monsanto has defeated most of my generation's other efforts....This is one concept that is "bulletproof". BUT.....It will be a while before I can implement rotational grazing in any meaningful form....I am trying. I am also surrounded and overwhelmed by a sea of mediocrity, ignorance, and traditionalism here in Arkansas. MOST, of anyone that I come in contact with.....for dozens and dozens of miles in every direction, will not embrace a concept that deviates so radically from "how Daddy did it". I have to travel up to Missouri......west to Oklahoma, or south to Louisiana or Texas to find enterprises that are economically forced to produce quality hay....I am stuck with $45-$60 bales of "good mixed grass".......OR,(TRANSLATION)......"over mature Fescue and a bunch of weeds that I don't know the name of "...... BUT AS THE LAST PERSON, WHO ASSURED ME OVER THE PHONE THAT HIS HAY WAS GOOD AND PUT UP CORRECTLY, TOLD ME WHEN I DROVE 45 MILES TO LOOK AT IT, AND DISCOVERED GARBAGE......." Well, it's better than a snowball in the middle of the winter".......How true !!!!
Gene....I know the difference between a frog and a toad. SO, when I'm casually told that a creature hopping past my foot is a frog, when it really is a toad.....I take note and often take issue with the person making the statement.
"Sexed Bovine sperm spends all day in a centrifuge" ...that is the gist of a statement you casually offhanded on another post. TRY THIS FOR THE CORRECT ANSWER sexingtechnologies.com/ THE DIFFICULTY THAT I HAVE WITH YOUR POSTS IS THAT, BY THEIR SHEER VOLUME, YOU ELICIT AND FOSTER AN AURA OF OMNISCIENCE. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Your posts are rife with misconceptions and half-truths.
BUT....I'm glad that I got you off your low stump, and onto a bit higher plane. You appear to be doing your homework.....ALTHOUGH IT IS HOMEWORK, NOT TO FIND A BROADER TRUTH. IT IS HOMEWORK TO SUPPORT YOUR POSITION. Often it is done with the exclusion of obvious information that runs counter to what you want to believe.
I, personally, am a skeptic/nihilist.....I don't buy into anyone's story very easily. BUT, I will listen to sound arguments. I FEEL IT IS OWED TO THE CASUAL AND HIDDEN READERS OF THIS FORUM TO EXPAND THEIR HORIZONS WITH A BROAD RANGE OF IDEAS. ... Otherwise it becomes "Fast Eddie's Used Cars and Dexter Sales". Your support of the "snowball in the winter" cabal, was not well thought out. It characterizes your predisposition to post first ( and often), and think later. Thanks for offering the positive take on Fescue. I still think Fescue was a "best of several evils" that was adopted for its convenience. I would personally take, and would recommend to anyone WHO WILL LISTEN, that another course be taken. And, I will provide sound, unbiased arguments for planting a range of other grasses without so many problematic traits. You grow whatever you want on YOUR Chia Pet. Your "Crabgrass" support is cutting edge and well grounded in the changing climate conditions. I have a variety here that is overwhelming in its growth....it is not commercially available, but I am cultivating a patch to harvest and spread the seed. SPECTACULAR.....I LOVE IT.
Thanks all for THINKING about me/this/us all......We owe it to each other...... to think, not necessarily agree, but to think about what we say.....
P.S. Gene....endophytes do not "re-infect" non endophyte fescue. It is a far more convoluted and complex difficulty....generally centered around re-emergence of seed shattered while harvesting the original, infected, over mature growth. FYI
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Gorignak
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Post by Gorignak on Jun 7, 2013 16:58:55 GMT -5
Gene...click the link.. sexingtechnologies.com/ ..it's an easy show and tell. I didn't need Google to explain that to me. I already knew it....I found a simple demonstration for everyone. You talked to the same people and "came to a different conclusion". Folks...it is a little animated picture that explains perfectly how semen is sexed....2 minutes and you will know unequivocally what you are talking about when describing it........FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE !!!!
Okay Gene, you win...my head hurts...Black can be white. I am deeply troubled to learn from Gene that there are no "experts" on the forum. I have valued Patti's opinion as expert, and both the Carol's. ( inclusion of them is not meant as exclusion of others...I'm just picking the most obvious and consistently credible), I even try and pay attention when they all get in their cat fights over Legacy or some esoteric genetic involvement with Judy....whom I also consider very well "studied" in her efforts . Personally, I can't follow a lot of it....but you seem to have plenty to say and the focus to present it as understood. A friendly social chat ?? Hide the knives folks. REALLY, you don't know what you are talking about? PLEASE POST A PRE-ERUPTION DISCLAIMER !!!!!
SO...gin up the rhetoric....Fluff and bluster through. If you have no respect for yourself to be accurate, I would ask some measure of respect for the first time Dexter owners that might have to act on information they glean from this forum.
I say exactly what I mean in as few words as possible. I aim to present information truthfully, and in an easily understood manner, and I WOULD LIKE ANY OF MY QUESTIONS handled in as truthful a manner as possible. Personally, Gene, I don't care what you think....but I did respect what I thought you knew. I'm glad to be set straight.
ABSTRACTLY..... YOUR "CHIA PET" IS A METAPHOR FOR YOUR FARM AND THE FESCUE IS ITS TOUPE OF GREEN GROWTH.
You have made no point that merits addressing...all I need/intend to say is in my previous post....Where do you find the time to post all the nonsense ( your admission ) that you now encourage everyone to ignore....UNBELIEVABLE.....I have a business, a farm, a family.....and a couple of acres of garden to get out and hoe....So I can eat next year. I can't get on some carousel of the crazy and go round and round rethinking my next move, or my last thought....round and round....I may be 64...but I still have a long way to go...and a lot to be "serious" about to get there. I LOVE LEARNING..... I said what I meant....Get a Thesaurus and a Jesuit friend to delve deeper. I'll move forward. ANYBODY that has firsthand knowledge of the answer to a question I ask....I value your "expert" opinion.
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Post by Olga on Jun 7, 2013 18:23:27 GMT -5
The most troubling thing about endophyte-infected fescue (EIF) that I learned so far is that if one decided to get rid of it, the process is lengthy and costly. One would have to first kill off all of the existing EIF, then re-seed the pasture, wait for the grass to establish before grazing cattle on it. Then, once the new pasture is ready for grazing, one would have to be sure that none of the hay fed to the cattle contains EIF because its seeds could be ingested and then re-establish EIF in the pasture and possibly take over.
Rotational grazing is my dream too. However, in our area it poses some problems. While it is feasible to set up internal electric fences to separate the pasture into segments, not many could afford to bring water to each section. In the past 2 summers of drought, the central problem was not as much with forage - for better-than-a-snow-ball-in-winter hay could be procured - but with water. When one lives on a mountain, choices are limited once the ponds and wells go dry.
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Post by lakeportfarms on Jun 8, 2013 5:42:46 GMT -5
Mike,
I'm happy to hear that I think you realize fescue plays a significant roll in grazing and haying (at least I think you have). Is that bag of K-31 still available?
I believe what raised the ire of some on the board (including me) is that you presented the topic in such a way that insinuated that any of us that feed fescue were doing our Dexters great harm. As I mentioned in a prior post, in our climate if we didn't have fescue we wouldn't have much to feed. Period. But as you see it can be managed and become a valuable forage.
Maybe you can get hay from Louisiana or other Southern states at a reasonable price, but try shipping it another 1000 miles and see what that bale of hay costs you. You continue to mention how people visit this board and information is so important, but you can't apply the same circumstances everywhere. I've been an avid follower of Agmantoo on the Homesteading Today board for quite a while, but a lot of his methods that work in N.Carolina simply don't work for us in Michigan. And I'm sure if I posted on that thread he'd say the same thing. The only exception is this: Rotational grazing works for everyone who does it. TIME PERMITTING! I don't excoriate those who don't choose to partake in it or do it a different way, however. But I have posted on the things that work for us that are economical and easily obtainable that I know to work because I move three or four different groups 2x per day. That's 6 or 8 moves/day. I maximize our use of forage by the frequent moves because it works for us. I developed a way (initially it was a lot of garden hose) of moving their water and mineral so I didn't have to run a lane back to those areas for them to drink. I can move the water and mineral faster than I move the temporary hot lines.
I should take a photo of how they graze it sometime...there is a line 4 feet wide extending from 2 feet on one side of the wire to 2 feet on the other side of the wire that is grazed down while the other grass is left. They actually graze with their withers a scant inch or two from a fence that will give them a jolt they won't forget. For some silly reason, the grass that is under the HOT fence is the best tasting grass, they'll eat the other grass only AFTER they've eaten the grass under the hot wire. I bet those cows curse me every time I lay out the temporary step ins and run the wire that I put them RIGHT OVER THE VERY BEST GRASS every time, without fail!
Gene, you're right on the money regarding sampling the grasses that grow naturally in an area and emphasize those in your pasture if possible. I don't believe in fighting nature and attempting change the conditions that you have, with a few exceptions like lime. I wish crabgrass would work around here for the few times (like last summer) that it would have sprouted, but I'd probably be wasting my money. I might try a test planting in some of our areas that are more prone to getting burned up in July and August. By the way, I graze those areas first, in order to give the grass a chance to recover by the time of the hot weather. If I grazed it in July, it would take forever to recover and present the opportunity for thistle and other undesireable weeds to get a foot hold. It is also the area where I feed the hay as much as possible, to keep building organic matter on the worst soil.
Gotta run, time to MOOOOOve the cows (anybody within a quarter mile hates my early morning pasture moves).
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Gorignak
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Post by Gorignak on Jun 8, 2013 11:30:24 GMT -5
Hans...I don't insinuate offhandedly. The members here failed miserably to do "due diligence" in reading and responding to my original post. The post described the vast fields of Fescue hay.....HERE..... that was a couple of days from having the same protein content as straw...and a TDN that would SUBTRACT from a cows development.
The pejorative "better than a snowball" is a common offhand around here.....usually meaning...."....well, you got me dead to rights......but I don't give a ____ and you can shove it"......
As far as not applying the facts to other locations....Over mature Fescue in Michigan has the same protein content as over mature Fescue in Arkansas. I OFFER MY LOCATION TWICE ON EVERY POST..... The first (NW Arkansas) will get you in the region...the ZIP CODE WILL PUT YOU ON THE MAP, 6 MILES FROM MY FARM. There was little IN MY ORIGINAL POST that does not hold true everywhere.
This is the problem that Ag Researchers, County Agents, and Extension Agents have in counseling on grasses to plant. Residual and entrenched misconceptions are firmly ensconced in a local agricultural idiom, and it is VERY difficult to dislodge them. You are smarter than that, Hans. And, as for the local grasses being best. Is that without consideration of their "food value". Do you call what is growing around you "natural" Everyone is aware (aren't they) that there was not an earthworm in North America until the Colonists brought them in their plants....Do you, for one second think that the local flora represents what evolved as the best grasses, prior to our inputs and modifications. THEN....I SHOULD PLANT BROOM SEDGE......IT GROWS RAMPANT, THICK, AND ETERNALLY, on the acidic, thin fields around here.....Impossible to dislodge it...except by liming heavily.....IT HAS ZERO.....ABSOLUTELY ZERO FOOD VALUE AND IS SPURNED AT ALL STAGES BY CATTLE. By your reckoning, that should be my grass of choice.
I will accommodate the spirit of the Forum...and have no comment on other "friendly" banter.....I am not looking for friends...I AM LOOKING FOR INFORMATION.....TRUTHFUL, UNBIASED INFORMATION to further my efforts raising Dexters. I sell my "friends" my furniture for $ 40 cents on the dollar....... If being "friends" is important, Gene,or Hans.....bring me down a half dozen $ 600. yearling, chondro negative, horned heifers (no Platinum) THERE ARE FAR, FAR STRONGER CURRENTS IN THIS FORUM THAN "FRIENDSHIP", and economics is only one of them. Come on Gene..... are all the folks you deal with as gullible as your approach to me would indicate you think I am ? MY memory is pretty good....The shifting sands of your knowledge base are ludicrous...your selective application of facts, and the evasive verbosity is disturbing to ones trying to advance their knowledge.
Hans....I do not insinuate to further my point...... Like saying...." Hey Hans, great pun in the first sentence of your post....."significant roll" ....great. That would be insinuating that you don't know the difference between "roll and role". I know you do, and I wouldn't embarrass you. So, Guys, don't embarrass yourselves with thinly contrived rejoinders, asides or pompous indignant affronts, and posturing. I am NOT that petty..... I respect all that deserves respect, and I will go out of my way to incur respect for my information. Please place some value on the truth....the facts.... then we can proceed and discuss the application.
I stand by all that I have written about Fescue. I did not comment on "YOUR" applications, and I am thrilled to see that there are narrow ways to utilize it at its best maturity. Those ways are so narrow, that they will almost certainly evade the "less than brilliant" novice. It is a poor choice, and should be selected only when all other options are exhausted...It is, however,....there, easy, and less than fatal. Hans, I value your observations, experience, and insight. Gene, I ignore your posts....not a specific comment on the content, but I have made the decision that there is not enough time to wade through them for any valuable information. You might want to consider reciprocal avoidance of mine.
This has devolved into a nit-picking session that has strayed far from the original intent....I announced my intent to end my part once already.....AH, the human spirit.....we are not far from the dance around the Mammoth carcass after all....I'm through. The "readers" deserve better . PM me with further enlightenments or entanglements......I'm done.
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Post by otf on Jun 9, 2013 7:08:08 GMT -5
Mike, please check your private messages.
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