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Post by Wags on Jul 7, 2008 14:23:29 GMT -5
Trying to figure out my feed needs for the year is giving me a headache. I sure wish the Dexter associations had more info on feed other than "12 to 15 pounds of hay and a little grain per day". So I'm thinking for the months when the pasture isn't providing much that I would try this combo: 10lbs local grass hay - moderate quality 2 lbs 100% alfalfa pellets 1 lb dry COB That is per heifer and they will have access to pasture that starts to green up and grow usually by late January. I plan to have them AI'd in Oct/Nov. So is that overkill? Not enough? I can also get BOSS and straight Oats if that would be better. Help!
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Honeycreek Dexters
member
All Natural Drug Free Grass Fed Beef, From Our Herd Sire Phoenix
Posts: 362
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Post by Honeycreek Dexters on Jul 9, 2008 8:06:01 GMT -5
unless someone knows the exact analysis of your current feed and the exact weight and lactation state of your animals it would be very hard to give an exact answer to such a broad question. their are quite a few formulas that can be found on line to calculate the amount of feed each animal needs but they all have a known analysis to start with. the recommendation made by the association is a good general rule of thumb, the much more important thing for you is consistency in the feed make up. and then spend some time with your animals so you know when they are looking poor or looking good. then you can adjust the amount of feed to do what you want to do. read, read, then read some more. find out about TDN, rumination, and the part that a good mineral play in your animals health. its really all a mater of experience, you have done the hard part you've got your cows now the fun begins. good luck. HCD
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Post by Olga on Jul 9, 2008 8:35:33 GMT -5
We're in Arkansas, and the pasture has grass in it till about November, then it goes dormant. We start to roll out haybailes in October-November, to supplement, but go to hay-only in late November, feed hay till April or so, when they start to eat fresh spring grass. We also have free-choice minerals available. I only give grain to the cow I'm milking at milking time. And if the cows start to look like they aren't getting enough, I get a 16% all natural protein tub, so they can supplement themselves as needed. Last winter we used less than 17 4x5 bailes of mixed grass to feed 1 bull, 4 cows with baby calves, and a yearling steer. Some of that hay was wasted because we don't have very good hay-rings.
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Post by Wags on Jul 9, 2008 8:45:35 GMT -5
Thanks for your responses. I have been searching the web, but the info I'm finding is for much larger dairy production cows. I'm trying to scale that info to fit Dexter sizes, but examples from folks that have experience feeding Dexters is more helpful.
The pellets are the only thing that have a guaranteed analysis - thats one of the reasons I use them for my goats (that and no waste and easier/cleaner to store).
I will get the hay I have analyzed, but was thinking that I would use the alfalfa pellets to balance it out. If the cows don't need grain until they are milking that would definitely save me a few dollars. They've been getting it now mostly as a treat to get them coming up to me.
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Post by copperhead on Jul 9, 2008 19:48:15 GMT -5
I only feed grass and a salt block in the summer. In the winter when the grass has turned I keep free choice hay out and feed about 2 lbs or so of soy bean pelleted feed per cow. With the rise in feed prices this year, I may cut that back and just put out the mineral tubs. I do like to raise the protein level for them in early winter, because I have the bulk of my calves born in March, and the better shape the cow is when she calves, the quicker she will breed back. I use a mineral salt block in the winter and yellow in the summer. I keep my feeding program real simple, thats why I like Dexters.
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Post by Olga on Jul 9, 2008 22:52:29 GMT -5
Copperhead, you're right. Dexters don't need much which is why they make such a good choice of breed. They don't need the best. So Wags, this may be overkill indeed. For example, my cow Maxine that I was milking since October, got too fat on the cheapest feed that I was giving her at milking times. She was getting about 6 lbs of 11% "beef-maker" feed, which is an all-grain mix of everything that goes through the feed mill.
You definitely don't want to overfeed your cows because if they do put on too much fat (which the short-legs are more likely to), they may quickly become infertile. If a cow becomes too fat during pregnancy, it may result in difficult labor. I would ensure a good hay supply for winter, and feed according to body condition. You want your Dexters to have covered ribs, but you need to be able to feel them. Make sure they don't put excessive fat around tail head and in the brisket. You want to worm in the early spring when the cows are going after the young grass and eating it down to the ground. If any animal shows signs of weight loss even after the worming, check for coccidia. If positive, treat the animal and provide the rest of the herd with prevenatative dose of coccidia medicine.
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Post by wstevenl on Jul 10, 2008 8:54:45 GMT -5
copperhead,
" In the winter when the grass has turned " What type of grass are you talking about? I watched a video on youtube the other night from Gene Sollock where he said that some of his stockpiled forage was tested and had 11-12% protein. I think he's in Texas.
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Post by Wags on Jul 10, 2008 10:30:27 GMT -5
Okay, what would you recommend? Could I cut out the grain and just give them the alfalfa pellets when they are milking? Do they need any extra during the later stages of pregnancy?
Steven - can you give us a link to the video you were talking about?
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Post by wstevenl on Jul 10, 2008 12:38:30 GMT -5
Wags, I don't remember which video it was in... there are a bunch of them that make up around 2 hours worth of a "field day" or something. This is the first one. youtube.com/watch?v=4WZZOiwjXYEIt can be hard to find the next video sometimes. You just have to search for "gene sollock 2" or "gene sollock 7" etc. on youtube. He talks alot about how to do rotational grazing, watering in the paddocks, and adding clover to your pasture instead of fertilizing with Nitrogen. He direct markets beef and all his animals are 100% grass/hay fed.
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Post by Olga on Jul 10, 2008 12:51:41 GMT -5
During winter, when grass is dormant and you're feeding hay, you can supplement your cows with protein supplement of your choice, guided by their body condition. When milking, you'll probably give them feed while they are in the stancheon - that would be enough for them. In the early spring, when grass is low in protein and gives the cows the runs, it is a good idea to still offer small amount of hay (so it doens't spoil if they eat it slowly) and a protein supplement. In the summer time, when there is plenty of grass, supplements aren't necessary, usually.
As to the pregnancy. You want your cows entering breeding season in good condition, with body score of 4 or 5 (beef body condition scoring system). You want to maintain that condition throughout gestation, making sure that the cow doesn't become over conditioned. The worst thing that could happen is if you think the cow is bred, and she isn't, or if you think the cow is bred, and she slipped the fetus, and is now open - and you treat her as if she's pregnant and "give her a little extra". Then the cow becomes fat and she stops cycling - which reaffirms to the owner that she'd bred and should calve any day. Cows like that can become a big dissappointment - not only do they not produce a calf, but you have to put them on a diet before they start cycling again. You also don't want your cow fluctuating more than 1 body score between pregnancy and post-calving. If a frame 4 cow calves and shortly she's down to frame 2, something is wrong. There may be extra calves suckling her. She may have worms. She may have retained a little bit of placenta and has an infection. May be she just isn't an "easy keeper" and needs higher nutrition to maintain production.
The thing is, a bred cow doesn't have any extra nutritional requirements for the first trimester, at least. She might eat increasingly more during the 2nd and 3rd trimester. But it is very important to limit the cow's exposure to high-protein supplements during the last 6 or so weeks of pregnancy, because then most of the nutrition is going to the calf - and it may grow too big and have difficulty calving. Feeding grain late in pregnancy may also increase your chances of milk fever. It is more important to ensure availability of free-choice minerals for your pregnant cows than grain.
Some folks only offer a salt block of some sort (white, sulfur, or mineral), but in my experience it is not enough by a long shot. You can determine if your animals are lacking in minerals if they keep their long winter hair into the summer time and look shaggy. Another test is to put a gallon of free-choice minerals into a feed bunk and if your cows go after it like its candy - they are low on minerals. Last summer I helped a friend out by letting his 3 beefmasters stay with our cows on a very good pasture. During one month, those 3 alone ate about 50 lbs of a free choice mineral mix. I couldn't refill the bunk fast enough. My friend said he didn't want to buy the mineral mix because it cost too much and they ate it too fast. But the point he's missing, is that when they replenish their mineral defficiencies, they won't eat as much of them. My cows, who get the minerals year round, only consume about a 100 lbs a year between 4 cows, a bull and whatever calves/steers are around at the time. Mineral availability will improve nutrient absorbtion from the grass/hay/grain. It also improves fertility in both bulls and cows.
Good luck. Thanks for bringing up this wonderful topic.
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Post by wstevenl on Jul 10, 2008 13:57:30 GMT -5
Anyone here feed kelp/salt mix for their minerals?
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Post by Wags on Jul 10, 2008 14:26:44 GMT -5
I have a block with selenium in it because I know that is one thing we are short on around here. Haven't seen loose minerals for cattle at my local feed store but I'll see if they can order me. They do stock it for goats now since several of us requested it.
Where would I find info on the beef condition scores? I don't know anything at all about beef cows.
I found the stuff by Gene Solluck very interesting - he feeds no hay or grain to his cattle. Granted they are all beef, and he doensn'tmilk. I'm going to see about getting my current pasture tested - it has a pretty good mix, although it could probably stand a bit more clover in there. Not sure how I would manage intense grazing for the rotation other than staking them out. With only two cows I would be setting up a heck of a patch work of little paddocks.
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Post by Wags on Jul 10, 2008 15:12:30 GMT -5
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Post by wstevenl on Jul 10, 2008 15:14:25 GMT -5
It would be hard to do MiG with 2 cows. We're doing it with 6 Dexters now. We just use step in posts with one electric polywire around 25 to 27 inches tall. Our posts had a pig tail on the top that was set up for normal sized cows.... 32" or maybe more... it was too high for them when they were learning. We ended up getting some insulators that screw tight on the posts so we can lower the wire or have multiple wires. Now that they are scared of the wire they won't go under it even if it was 40 inches. We move at least one string of wire each day and it takes about 15 mins. The more difficult thing would be getting water to them. We did basically what Gene Sollock says on those videos except we buried our pipe and put a riser every 100ft.
It's great being able to put them in a small paddock and have them mow it down evenly instead of picking and choosing.
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Post by Wags on Jul 10, 2008 16:08:05 GMT -5
My two were in electric fencing before I got them so they are trained to it, and they keep a distance from the field fence they are in now.
My pasture area is a basic rectangle roughly 280x400 with a new field fence around the perimeter. If I only had to use a single wire and used step in posts I could set up eight 50'x280' paddocks. And running a water line to them wouldn't be too hard, I was already planning on splitting it into three and running water, so it basically would be just a few more spigots.
I realize it is a long range plan, but I like to have a goal to shoot for. I can start testing my soil and existing forage this summer to see what I need to do to improve it.
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