UPDATE: On mastitis and how I stopped my self-sucking cow

[legendrockranch]

Here's one for you Susan.
If these weaners can fit this guy, surely they can fit your girl, and there's 6 of them too.

www.ebay.com/itm/6-vintage-turn-of-century-calf-weiners-farm-fresh-antiques-warrior-armor-/300991847786?pt=Folk_Art&hash=item4614831d6a

[hollydzie]

Barb you need to add them to your collection LOL

[legendrockranch]

I already have the one he's wearing. If Susan decides to buy them, 5 are identical, I would be willing to buy one of those.

Barb

[zephyrhillsusan]

Looks like I just started my collection!      Thanks, Barb!  They'll look good with my antique mule blinders that look like a Roman sports bra--oh, my goodness!  That gives me an idea!  Poor, poor Siobhan!  

[dexterlady]

Susan, I just read all the things you did with Siobhan....I must tell you, I tried to leave you a comment on your site but it didn't go through....I must tell you, I have a self sucker also and I am going to try what you did....I too have a surcingle from my horse days ( Missouri Foxtrotters), I have draw reins and all kinds of horse equipment...So I will try to make one for Sunshine....Only problem is, Sunshine nurses on other cows as well!...She got head-butting with one of my other cows and then she started nursing on her!!!...Then they were nursing off each other before I could get them separated!...I now have Sunshine in a pasture by herself and she is not happy...She has been by herself for two months now with her heifer...I noticed today all her udder looked empty and I am wondering if she is empting them or the calf is nursing...The calf today looked a little on the slim side so I am really concerned now...I thought Sunshine had given up on the self nursing since she had the calf on her...Maybe I am as niave as you were or I have been fooling myself....Sunshine may never be able to be with the herd again now....Tomorrow I am going to start on the curcingle for her...How Siobhan doing now?...Maybe I better try the food color tests first....I like that spiked halter, did it work?...I am going to measure Sunshines' neck and see if I can find a spiked dog collar and attach it to her halter...That's another thing...Sunshine has not had a halter on for months...But then again, she may just tear up another cows udder trying to nurse...Hey, what about a wire muzzle?....She could still eat grass and drink but she couldn't get a teat in her mouth, I don't think?...I was thinking along the lines of muzzle like they use for horses???....What do you think?...I think I might look this up and see what I can find....I will let you know....Good luck with Siobhan....Donna

[zephyrhillsusan]

Hi Donna dexterlady, I'm so VERY sorry you're having this problem, too AND nursing other cows on top of it! And sorry about the comment not going through, I hear about that occasionally. Okay, I'm going to recommend that in addition to the draw reins you also try Weaver's nylon strap tie-downs that I linked in my second post. I found the draw reins were hard to make short enough for our Dexters, unless Sunshine is extremely long. Siobhan has decent body length, though not near like her dam. Also, the tie-down clips are easier to feed through a piece of PVC pipe. I really recommend using a piece of 1 1/2" PVC pipe to put the reins through. Although you might want to do the food color test after just the draw reins and see if that does it. No need for overkill.

I'll try to get my spiked halter tutorial up today. I will say that I think the screws I used are too long. I even think that machine screws might work just as well without being quite so pointy. When Siobhan and Ebony were touching noses, I realized that it's a good thing Siobhan doesn't have an aggressive bone in her body or she could use the spikes like horns and even worse. Even by accident they could put out a cow's eye or seriously hurt her calf. So I'm going back to the drawing board on this one--going to try some very short screws similar to the dog collar, some flat-tipped machine screws, and maybe even look for a spiked dog collar to see if I could just bolt that to the noseband of the halter. It would also possibly have fewer spots to rub on her nose underneath.

You asked if the spiked halter worked. I haven't put her in with Ebony yet because of the concern I mentioned above. But I can NOT imagine that another cow would let her nurse with those spikes poking her. But then again, I could never have imagined how persistent this habit can be! So who knows what goes on in the mind of a cow?

On the wire muzzle, here's the problem I have with it, echoed by someone on KFC when someone else suggested a grazing muzzle. In order to eat grass, the cow has to get its tongue out to whip around the grass. If she can do that, she can nurse. Also, as hot as it gets here, that is a LOT of stuff on her face.

One other idea I haven't tried yet is the idea of a bit in the cow's mouth. That was another old timers' solution. I would have tried it but don't have a snaffle bit handy; maybe you do with all your horse gear. I only have a Meyer bit for my one TWH and ride the other one in a Clinton Anderson rope halter. TSC didn't have any horse-sized snaffles, either--people around here ride almost exclusively in curb bits. I figured that a quick-link, also called an O-ring, if it was long enough would probably allow you to get a snaffle bit connected to the halter if you made the halter drop down close enough to her nose. The principle is that the bit keeps her from creating suction. I have no idea if it really works.

What you tell me about Sunshine possibly stealing milk from the calf makes me even more convinced that Siobhan is going to wear her surcingle gear even after her calf is born. I'm thinking I want to watch her very closely for signs of calving (I guessed right last time for her first calf by feeling her pins several times a day) and try to remove the equipment just long enough for her to have the calf. However, I may decide not to run the risk of her taking the colostrum. Or I might take off the right side tie-down and PVC because she hasn't sucked on that side to my knowledge.

Let me know what you try and how it works. And good luck!

[marion]

I think if I was faced with this problem, I would consider stanchioning the cow in the old-fashioned type swivel stanchion. They are still quite widely used in dairy barns. I doubt she could reach her udder if stanchioned. The calf could be penned in front of her and allowed supervised nursing at intervals. The cow could wear her udder cover when she went out for exercise..marion

[dexterlady]

Thank you Susan and Marion...The stanchion idea won't work because I don't have one...And my husband could not build one because he has Alzheimers disease and no longer has that part of his brain working..( slow process)....Maybe when I get some time, I can figure it out how to make one....Anyway, Susan, I have got to finish my taxes , than I am going to work on making my rigging like yours...I did think of an idea Susan....What if ( AFTER) the calf is weaned, you applied Jalapeno juice to the teats, like just put a small amount on the teats hwere it couldn't get into the teat hole...You know just around the outside of the teat...Only thing is , you would have to make absolutely sure there were no open sores on the teats or it would burn that real bad...( Knowing my luck, this cow would love the taste of it!LOL)...This is my best cow , like you with Siobhan, I love this cow but this is really irritating me....Anyway, let me know what ya'll think of the jalapeno juice....Oh and one more thing Susan, I just ordered one of those wire mess muzzles, guess that was a bad idea...Do you know if the snaffle bit lets them eat grass?...I know a horse can but I wonder about a cow , since they have to wrap their tongue around the grass?...Just a thought...Thanks for all your help.....Donna

[zephyrhillsusan]

Donna, I don't think the snaffle would interfere with her tongue, just creating a vacuum for suction. That was the old timers' explanation. But any time I try anything on her I do the "taste test" and observe to see if she can comfortably eat. That's always the killer for any idea where she can't.

Someone else suggested a horrible-tasting substance, but another person said cows don't tend to have the kind of taste buds that are affected by that. I thought of bitter apple like they use for puppies, or alum like my mom used to use in pickles. I'm afraid that this habit is so tough to break that negative conditioning like a bad taste won't actually be a strong enough deterrent. That's why I've been working on pure physical prevention.

I guess you could try the wire mesh muzzle, maybe there'd be a way to tweak it so it would work. You may have seen earlier on this thread that I ordered the calf weaners that Barb Netti pointed out on E-bay. I'm thinking that they might just fit a Dexter and that I might try one on her when they come.

One quick caution on the halter: I noticed today that the underneath part of the center one has rubbed a patch on the bridge of her nose. I temporarily took that halter off since she's alone and put on a pony one, which is shorter and rides above the little sore. Treated the sore with AB paste/fly ointment. So I need to remove the center spike and perhaps just leave two on each side that correspond to the softer, more concave part of her face.

[northstar]

If you're thinking of putting anything on their teats as a deterrent, my cow HATES Plantskyyd. I put it on a tree to keep her from chewing on it and she won't go within 20 feet of the tree. It is to deter moose and rabbits, and would just take a dab. It smells like rotten meat.
Marsha

[zephyrhillsusan]

Marsha, do you have any idea how long it stays? Just wondering if it would wear off before she calved?

[northstar]

After I sprayed the tree in August, she wouldn't go near it for the rest of the summer. I apply it to my raspberries every 3 months to keep the moose away.
Marsha

[marion]

Donna, the old dairy stanchions are steel and can still be found at farm sales, although I'm sure a lot of them have been sent for scrap. I'll try to post a pic of one later. The are a long oval with one side bar that opens, and they hang at the head of the stall with a swivel and a couple of chain links top and bottom.marion

[dexterlady]

Thanks Susan Marsha and Marion....Marsha, where would I get the Plankskyyd?...Feed store or lumber yard?....I will look online and see where I can find it...I have never heard of this...Do you think it would wear off by the next calving?...I would love to be able to put Sunshine over on our lease property with all the other cows after they are all confirmed bred....But I sure can't yet...
Marion, I will have to look for one of those stanchions....Thanks to everyone...I may just have to resort to what Susan has done....
Susan, it is funny you mentioned the rubbing of the halter, I was wondering about that when I was studying your device....Thanks....Donna

[northstar]

I buy it at a gardening center. There may be something similar with a different name in your area. It's so nasty, I can't imagine a cow still sucking with it on them. When I get it on me, it takes some scrubbing to get it off. You may have to wash her udder good before she calves or the calf wouldn't nurse. When is Sunshine due?
Marsha