What color is this?

[Nonesuch Farm (Melissa)]

Feb 8, 2010 8:28:19 GMT -5 cddexter said:

melissa, you can double check with john p. but I think this is written in fairly hard stone:

At birth, black is black is black.

a non-black coat with black hair right around the eyes and right above the nose skin will turn black. These animals can be beige or even mahogany in the rest of the coat, to start with. This has been traced back to either carrying color or sometimes a copper deficiency.

a beige nose and beige feet will be dun

a pink, black, greyish or spotted nose, usually pink feet, and a non-black coat will end up red. Again, check in the 1/2 inch of tiny hairs right around the eyes and immediately above the nose. Also, a 'mealy' nose, where there is a tiny (but up to 2 inches in the adult) of cream hair just above the nose will probably turn red.

Do I see a mud pond in the background. Lucky you. Can I send my koi to you for a summer vacation? I have soil that drains like a bathtub, and all my ponds are lined. No fun at all.

Hope the info helps. It can be confusing if you haven't seen dozens of animals of all types. c.

Actually it makes perfect sense. I raise chickens and there are very definate links to chick down color and adult color in many breeds but you have to know what you are looking for.

I think that was the give away that the heifer calf was going to be black long before her face turned black... she had the black nose and rings above her hooves and black eye rings, tail tip and dorsal stripe. I think the little bull in the first pics is probably dun... it's the nose that makes me think so... I have never seen a black animal without a black nose.

All of my girls carry color. Even the dun carries red. You can see that one of the half sisters is much lighter and has a red cast to her coat in my other post but the very black one used to be the same... We have addressed the possibility of copper def. and are assured that is not an issue here so I think that it may be that they carry color and the black is somehow diluted at least until they are older, Yes?



Yes that is a mud pond, we have three on the place and a creek that transects the property so plenty of water sources even in dry weather. I put my koi in when the weather is unbearably hot in the summer than back in the ornamental pond when it cools down... they really get color in there. I use ponds to raise catfish in fall and rainbow trout in winter/spring for the freezer.

I have some remarkable Japanese Koi including a Matsuba, Kohaku, Tancho Sanke, Sanke and a couple of Showa... I would love to let you add yours in anytime C... they ship pretty well if you ever need to. Our koi vet has one ship in fish if they need surgery. I have never had to but I know others that have.

[ctownson]

Remember you can always do the genetic color test as well. We did that for our bull, so I know exactly what he carries. Now, I can use that information to evaluate the calves he sires.

charles
www.beavertreefarm.com

[cddexter]

Mel, I'm GREEN (water) with envy. I want to start up a small koi breeding business, and everything has to be done in tanks, in a greenhouse (coons, kingfishers and herons). My water temps here are around 35-40 in the winter, up to 85 in the summer. One good thing about being this far north is I only have to feed them six mo. of the year; water too cold the rest of the time. I currently have a soragoi, 2 ginrin chagoi, kokaku, matsuba longfin, platinum, a shiro utsuri, 2 shusui, all around 22-25" and probably around 20 or so young'ns I'm keeping an eye on, all in a 40,000 gal pond in what would otherwise be the front yard. Aren't they great! c.

[legendrockranch]

ok you guys, I have one small koi I bought by accident. I would love to raise koi, however there are just to many varmints here.
So I decided on the next best colorful fish and way cheaper the lowly Shubunkin.

For those of you that have never herd of Shubunkins they are nicknamed the "Poor Mans Koi".

So now I have a poor mans fish and a poor mans cow ;D

Barb

[Nonesuch Farm (Melissa)]

If those are poor mans cattle Barb, sign me up for poverty!

The Koi are about 10 years old now and between 30 and 36 inches long and weigh 10-15 pounds so not much tries to eat them any more. The females get decidely bigger than the males. I bought them at a koi show where the lady next to me had had a $50,000 fish dropped shipped in

[legendrockranch]

What a sight that must be to see a bald eagle swooping down!
I'd almost stock my little pond with catfish just to witness that.

We do have 2 heron but they're made from metal ;D
The real ones don't come here, I think my pond is to small for them.

Basically we just get ground critters here with little birds that like to take a bath in the small stream.

We've really hijacked this thread haven't we.

Barb

[Olga]

I just love it when their coat is all glossy as if spayed with oil! I recall one of my calves had a real dun look to it, but can't remember which one. But after a while it turned black also.

[wileycoyote1]

OK, now I am even more confused. Our Mama Billy Jean gave birth yesterday to a hefty bull calf that DH swears is red. He definitely looks a deep reddish-liver-colored to me. Both Billy Jean and Lloyd the sire carry red in their pedigrees, even though BJ's is her great-grandma. But because they are both registered as black, should the young bull be registered also as black? Could he be red? How long should I wait to see? (He has the prettiest grey eyes, too...) Mama Billy Jean has very red ear tips and some red on her hindquarters... Is this just wishful thinking? I don't really care what color he is, but I don't want to mess up his registry.

[otf]

I could be mistaken, but I believe a red calf born to a black sire and dam must be color tested before being registered as red. You might want to confirm this with either the Registrar (Chuck Daggett) or your regional director (Clay Adams).

Gale

[legendrockranch]

In order to register a Dexter as RED, it must be tested (DNA verified) as red unless it is the offspring of a registered red sire and a registered red dam or at least one parent has been tested as a non-carrier of dun.

Info taken from the ADCA website.

Barb

[ctownson]

It is very hard to tell from this picture - if you can take a couple of more pictures you can get better feedback. Regardless, it is also my understanding that if you think the calf is red you will have to get the genetic test done based on the sire/dam being black.

charles
www.beavertreefarm.com

[wileycoyote1]

Thanks for all ya'll's input! I kept reading but I wasn't SURE exactly what they meant. We had thought to steer any bulls this year, but if he is RED I would not want to inadvertently lose that strain. Guess I will have to have him tested. And I apologize for the pic - on my camera and computer he has a red/chocolate color, on DH's, a definite liver color...

[Star Creek Dexters]

I just bought Nonesuch Leah from Melissa and Don. She has been here since Sunday and is SUCH a sweetie! But I am posting because I read through everything about color on her and think it's pretty interesting. She is 6 months old, shedding out her winter coat. She has black feet and nose, but she is shedding her darker hair and new hair growth is coming in a light chocolate brown. I need to get a picture of her in the light so you guys can see. It's gonna be really interesting to see what this girl ends up being in a year.
No matter what, it is all fine with me, she has the personality and milkiness that we want, and that's what matter most.
We are very excited to have her here!

[Nonesuch Farm (Melissa)]

OK... I hope that Kimberly doesn't kill me for this 'cause she probably wanted to take posed pictures but I think these are GREAT examples of Leah's COLOR... The second one has her between a black cow and a red calf so you can really compare.

so whaddaya think? ... reminding that her dam does not carry red per her genetic testing.

[legendrockranch]

OK, just my 2 cents, more than likely she's black.
I have not seen dun dexters with black noses or hooves.

Barb