Milking without grain

[davstep]

Does anyone on this forum milk their Dexters without the use of grain?

If so, what is your routine for milking. I have raised dairy goats for several years and part of the reason for adding Dexters to our farm is to raise our own grass finished beef and also dairy for our house without the use of grain. Are their specific genetic lines to look for that are targeted for grass only?

Thanks,
David

[Olga]

It would take determination to train a cow to milk without using grain, imho. I've heard how to get it done on Family Cow board. You have to be persistent in asking the cow to stand still in the stancheon and let you handle her udder. You train her to recieve a reward for standing still after you're done milking - you could use a handful of alfalfa, for example. But if she doesn't hold still you would have to leave her in the stancheon and delay ther reward. This training process takes patience and time; not to mention a steady nerve when dealing with an uncooperative cow.
On the other hand, you could still allow her to eat something "special" while milking that doesn't have to be grain. If you have access to a hammer mill you could run some good quality hay through it, give it a few sprays of molasses mixed with water, may be a handful of alfalfa hay or pellet - just use your imagination.
As to bloodlines, I'd say that most Dexters with a nicely shaped udder will make enough for the table.

[wdd]

David,

Most of us that milk Dexters use a little grain as a treat to make the milking experience special for the cow and something to look forward to. Grain is fed in large quantities on Dairies to increase the volumn of milk each animal produces. The amount of grain fed can lead to an acidic situation in the stomaches of the cow that is hard on their health. The protien and fat production is influenced by the ruffages (hay/grass). Any cow can produce milk without grain, but the milk production will be less. That said I don't know if any Dexter owner is really feeding their animals enough grain to influence the volumn of milk produced. If you offer a good quality hay in the manger for her at milking time that could be a good enough incentive to make the experience special for her. Some animals enjoy being brushed and petted at milking time also. Cows like routine so try to establish a milking schedule that can be fairly consistant and there will be less stress on the cow and she will be more cooperative and ready for the milking. I am not aware of any Dexters that are better at grass only diets since the majority are raised grass only. Those that do get grain typically get just enough as a treat. There may be some that grain finish their Dexters but that isn't necessary. Good luck and enjoy your Dexters.

[dexterfarm]

I give about a half cup of grain to get her in the stanchion. It is gone quickly but she usually continues to stand OK. I also put a salt and mineral block in the stanchion that keeps her occupied for some of the time. I think after a time you may not have to give a treat but I am not there yet. I tried not giving any treat at first and it was just not worth the fight. better that going in the stanchion is her idea. I don't give enough grain to affect her and I was lucky enough to find organic corn.
Some Dexter's do give more than others but its not really a grass verses grain thing. Any dexter should give plenty of milk for a family.

[davstep]

Thanks for the responses so far. We plan to milk only 1-2 Dexters at most for home use. It's too difficult to make butter and whole cream from goat milk. The ideology of not feeding any grain is just trying to follow the natural diet. I realize most Dexters would likely produce more than enough for what we would like for our house and to still be able to feed her calf on forage alone. It is really a training and reward issue. I have a first time bred heifer that is due sometime in May and she was being fed small amounts of grain when I brought her home so I have continued the same routine and will until she births to prevent reducing calories while she is still pregnant. I will more than likely continue with the small amounts of grain, in which I provide her minerals, even when I milk her. I am just curious on how others handle milking.

Thanks,
David

[cddexter]

Some misc info you can pick through:

Commerial dexter dairies in England work on the ratio of 4 lbs of grain for the cow, and 4 lbs of grain for each gallon of milk produced/day.

The average not bred specifically for yield dexter will probably give you a couple of gallons a day in full flush. Expect that volume to drop the further into the lactation you are, especially if you aren't feeding any grain. A lot will depend on time of year, quality of grass/hay being fed.

BF content in Dexters tends to average around 3.5 to 4%.

Not all dexters are created equal in the volume stakes. Some milky lines available on old AI are Lucifer of Knotting, Riverhill Saturn's Galaxy, Hiyu Renown Magician. Look for descendants that have been selected for milk yield, if you can. Some Dexters will only give you maybe a gallon or less, others can give you up to 4, and sometimes 5 gallons/day, so genetics are important.

Milk output uses up both proteins and calcium. Some cows 'milk off their backs', meaning they sacrifice their own body weight and health to produce the milk you are asking them for. This requires top quality grass and high protein hay to keep them healthy.

The more you handle your cows the quieter they will be. Dexters can often be milked out in the field, loose, but they have to like and trust you first.

Some people let the calf nurse on one side while they milk out the other. This keeps the cow quiet without treats, but some sort of reward is a good idea.

Let us know how you get on. c.

[Star Creek Dexters]

Hi David,
Sorry I didn't see this thread earlier and am just now responding.

I do not use any grain to milk my cows. They get a flake of Alfalfa in the stanchion. I did grain a little in the beginning but found that my cow was getting FAT! I stopped using grain at about 2 months into lactation and have never gone back to it.

I do know that some cows need the extra calories to maintain condition through out lactation. It just depends on your cow.

Mine will do anything I ask for Alfalfa hay...

[Star Creek Dexters]

Here is a link to our site that outlines our milking routine.
starcreekcountry.com/Raw_Milk_Lifestyle.html
Feel free to ask any questions

[midhilldexters]

I don't feed grain, period. I am in the frozen north and I have animals that do well in the winter without extra feed. Now I do have some that do better than others, and if I have to I supplement with alfalfa pellets.
I do believe that some Dexters are genetically predisposed to doing better on a grass fed diet than others, and I think if you can find animals from a herd that is grass fed only, you can take advantage of those genetics.
Here is a link to some interesting reading from Gerald Fry on grass fed genetics
www.herondalefarm.com/pdf/DefiningGrassGenetics.pdf

Basically some animals just utilize grass better than others, if this is the way you want to go, spend time and start out with stock that work for you, or take the time and years it takes to cull your animals and keep the ones that perform the best for you and your area.

I'm not presently milking, but I had no trouble getting a gallon for me and the cow raising a calf on nothing but grass/clover hay). You do have to watch your herd very well and at the first sign of weight loss be able to add an energy supplement like alfalfa hay or pellet.

I would like to say that along with their hay diet, my animals get fresh water, salt, and a good mineral. This year they also have kelp on offer. In summer they are on reasonable pasture and rotated on a regular basis.

Carol K

[Olga]

The only cow that ever gave me trouble during milking when the grain ran out was Maxine. If I was milking her free-standing, she'd give me a dirty look and walk away in indignation. If Maxine had her head in the stancheon, she'd turn her head at me and blow boogers in my direction. Maxine is also a very fast eater and a very slow milker - so I couldn't give her pelletized grain. It had to be ground up grain mix, preferably over some hay - to slow her down. Still she'd gain weight during lactation and the last 2 years I dried her up "early" because she was getting too fat.

[rdoubled]

When I am training a cow to milk they will get a small amount of grain, 1lb coffee can and then I have some "Special Alfalfa Hay" that they get to eat when the grain is done. I have had some cows that would not stand very well for the hay so I mixed soaked beat pulp in with the grain or alfalfa pellets.

As mentioned some cows need more calories to keep the body condition up when milking. I will adjust the amount of grain for each animals. Some will get up a 3 lb coffee can of Corn Oats and Barley.

After playing around with grain amounts, alfalfa hay, alfalfa pellets and beat pulp and then milk testing I have found that if you want greater production out of the cow grain or spring grass will get it done but the quality (butter fat) of the milk seems to go down.

[lsg]

We have always given our cows grain when milking. They keep in better condition with a little grain.