questions about fencing

[christi]

I am new here, and these will be very newbie questions, I am sure...but here goes! We just moved to a place with an acre that is fenced in with a 4ft white vinyl 3-rail fence. I have a couple of questions about it.

1. Will it be strong enough to keep cows in?

2. Will Dexters (especially calves) be able to fit through the openings? There is a 12 inch space from the ground to the first rail, and then 10.5 inch spaces between the two rails above. I am not opposed to running hot wire, but was not excited to do the entire perimeter because I have kids, and I'm sure they would get shocked. I'm not too worried about the older kids, but was more concerned about the 1 year old and 2 year old.

3. I was going to have my chickens free ranging in the same pasture as the cows. Initially, I was thinking about surrounding the pasture in this bird netting and clipping wings to keep the chickens in: www.amigoni.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=101&Category_Code=BN
But then I got to wondering if that netting could pose any danger to the cows. Could they swallow it? Get tangled in it? I don't know if that is even a possibility for them, but wanted to get some opinions on it.

4. I was planning on splitting the field into 3 seperate sections for rotational grazing. Would hot wire be best for this? Any other suggestions?

Thanks in advance for any comments.

Christi

[dexterfarm]

You will have to put electric around a lot of it or they will tear it up. One strand in between the bottom and middle rail should do it. As far as the kids go they will learn not to touch it. You don't have to have a real high powered electric fence. any shock is enough to stop the cattle after a few hits on it. I would not let the kids around the cattle unsupervised. They don't see children as little people often times they see them as predators. even the gentlest cow may turn on a child.
I would use electric fence to divide it up for grazing.
The cows will probably eat the netting. If they swallow large pieces it can tangle up in the gut. You could use electric poultry netting.
How important is it that the chickens not leave the fenced in area? If they have a centralized area with food and shelter they will tend to stay around there and not wonder to far but they will cross the fence at times. Some of that depends on the breed to.

[sprucegrovefarm]

Christi, I think that you will need to put at least one electric wire around the inside of the entire vinyl fence. One strand, placed as Mike suggested, probably will work, but I wouldn't leave any section unprotected. I am concerned about the space below the bottom rail. A few years ago I had a 6 day old calf lie down next to a corral panel and wiggle under it. She wandered over to a flooded drainage ditch, fell in, and drowned. Perhaps your idea of the poultry netting around the outside of the vinyl fence (fastened tightly) would prevent a calf from getting out.

By the way, if you decide to clip your chickens' wings, just clip one wing on each bird. They'll be so off-balance when they try to fly that they won't be able to get much altitude at all.

I have to wonder how many Dexters you're planning on keeping in a one-acre pasture, especially if it is divided into thirds for rotational grazing. Unless you have extremely lush pasture and have a looooooong growing season, you probably will have to feed quite a bit of hay unless you limit yourself to one cow-calf pair or possibly 2 cows. Just my opinion on the numbers.

I also agree with Mike that young children shouldn't be left unsupervised in a paddock or pasture with cattle. My Dexters are extremely docile and have always been friendly toward little kids, but my animals like to lick humans, and even a calf could knock down a little kid when being friendly.

I wish you all the best with Dexters and hope that you enjoy them as much as the folks on this board enjoy ours!

John

[midhilldexters]

Hi Christi and welcome,
where are you located? Your acre could quickly turn to looking like a feedlot, so you will have to be careful on how many animals you put on it, and I would think you will have to feed hay most of the year.
Splitting the pasture into thirds could work, but what about water and shelter in each third, that's extra expense.
I agree with keeping the animals off your vinyl fence with some electric, it's a must do. As for the children, raise them to know not to touch the fence, and not to be in the pasture without you, it's just not worth the risk of what could happen.

Carol K

[christi]

Thanks so much for the feedback. I live in Washington state, about an hour North of Seattle. Just to clarify, I would never leave my kids unsupervised with a cow, no matter how gentle she was. I'm not that bad of a mama!

I am planning to have only a total of 2 ever on our small acre lot. I'm looking into a few options: cow/calf pair, a weanling heifer and a yearling for meat, possibly even just a pregnant mama. ...?

It sounds like the best way to go is with an electric fence. As far as doing rotational grazing, it sounds like I will need more then just to seperate eating areas (wishful thinking on my part, I guess.) So I was thing about having a small semi-permanent paddock up by the barn and keeping the cow there most of the time, but for a few hours in the morning, as well as a few hours in the evening letting her go into part of the pasture for grazing. Someone on another board encouraged tethering cows instead of dividing the pasture into so many tiny subdivisions. My field is flat and level, so this could possibly work. I could haul water out where she was grazing pretty easily with the setup that we have here, that wouldn't be a problem, but I'm still not sure that I am entirely comfortable with the idea of staking. What are your thoughts about this?

I was also looking into using step-in posts as a temporary electric fenced paddocks. Has anyone used them, and is it hard to reconfigure them?

Thank you so much for all of your help. I am just starting to learn (obviously!) and I want to make sure that I have all my bases covered before I move forward with buying a cow (or 2).

Christi

[sprucegrovefarm]

Hi Christi,

I think I have more questions than answers. My main question, however, is why do you want Dexters? Meat only? Or milk and meat?

If you want meat only, then I suggest you get one or two steers and forget the cow. If you get two steers, perhaps one should be about a year older than the other. That way you can add a weaned calf after your older one has been butchered. That would be only if you find that your one-acre paddock is adequate for two animals.

I don't like the idea of subdividing a one-acre paddock, and I don't like the idea of staking out animals for grazing. Once again, this is just my personal opinion.

If you want milk, then a cow/calf pair makes some sense, but you'll need to be prepared to separate the cow from her calf if you want to milk her. You will need to face the issue of timing with respect to your decision about what to do with the calf. The calf will need to be separated from its mother long before it is old enough to be butchered regardless of its sex. Will you want to butcher a heifer, or will you sell her as soon as she is weaned? If it's a bull, will you castrate him and separate him in time to give the cow a rest before her next calf?

Again, the size of your paddock concerns me. You are in an area that should have good grass and a decent growing season, but you will still need to make decisions that will prevent your paddock from becoming a muddy, manure-loaded mess. I'm not saying it can't be done or shouldn't be attempted. I'm saying that you need to be aware of your options and your limitations.

John

[midhilldexters]

Hi Christi,
letting her (them) out a little in the morning and evening would work better in my opinon, it wouldn't be so bad on such a small area.
Polywire and or polytape would work great with step in posts, in my last house I had only 5 acres and I used to use one strand to let my animals mow my drive and lawns, worked great. Buy a roll, then transfer it to a $6 electric reel, that way you can roll out as little or much as you may need, and roll it up to move it.
A heifer and a steer would be nice to start with, company for eachother, then you can get the heifer bred and when she is due to calve your steer will be ready to butcher and her calf will replace him.
There may be times when you have 3 animals there at any one time, so feeding hay will be a must.
I think you could make it work, so welcome to the world of Dexters!

Carol K

[christi]

Our goal is eventually both milk and meat. We are flexible as to the time when we will get either (milk or meat). Thanks for all your suggestions.