outofthebox
member
If you always do what you always did, You will always get what you always got.....Albert Einstein.
Posts: 78
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Post by outofthebox on Apr 13, 2014 16:48:43 GMT -5
Knotting Leo 3rd (UK) please. Just after more information about him if anyone can help?  |
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Post by cddexter on Apr 13, 2014 19:24:47 GMT -5
Hi Donna. Should be a nice bull. If the DCAI will accept him, and you aren't anal about this obsessive 'purity' bs, he has an experimental cow three gens back, making his dam 1/64th possibly non-Dexter genes, keeping in mind that most cattle genes are common to all breeds, so if he inherited a 'non-Dexter' gene, it is probably identical to the Dexter gene at the same locus, and therefore indistinguishable. cheers, c.
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Post by wagradexters on Apr 13, 2014 20:08:51 GMT -5
He is on the accredited AI list already Carol, one of the last batch that Grant has, along with Cobthorn Danny Boy and B.Redberry Prince. They all have shortish pedigrees (even CDB, dare I say), but most of us are not quite so anal about that kind of thing as we used to be. We have mostly come to grips with none of the overseas stuff having the weight of DNA behind them, and all of them having originally been "registered on inspection" anyway. Margaret
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Post by rawlingsdexter on Apr 14, 2014 1:38:18 GMT -5
He is on the accredited AI list already Carol, one of the last batch that Grant has, along with Cobthorn Danny Boy and B.Redberry Prince. They all have shortish pedigrees (even CDB, dare I say), but most of us are not quite so anal about that kind of thing as we used to be. We have mostly come to grips with none of the overseas stuff having the weight of DNA behind them, and all of them having originally been "registered on inspection" anyway. Margaret I find this post on this forum particularly disturbing as recently DCAI made live extremely difficult for the importation of new polled Dexter genetics into Australia, because of the person importing them and because they were not going on the Accredited AI list. Even insisting on five generation pedigrees, DNA profiles, PV and other testing, even being so difficult as to insist the testing be done at UQ. Margaret Weir as a Councillor you should refrain from such comments on public forums or at least treat all people equally. If DCAI have not followed up on necessary documentation and give the Australian membership the wrong idea that these bulls are all OK then I see grounds for legal challenges in the future for our Association. Especially when the bulls are called Accredited AI Sires. Shame on you |
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Post by kansasdexters on Apr 14, 2014 14:00:59 GMT -5
Marg,
No matter how flat a pancake is, there are always two sides to it. Same as for this issue. From my perspective, the DCAI Board is to be commended for its ongoing efforts to assure that any new imported Dexter bull semen (or embryos) meet the current DCAI requirements for documentation, testing, parentage verification, etc.
Genetic testing for DNA genotype of Dexter AI bulls in the United States has only been required since January 1, 2003. Before that, blood typing was the only requirement for an out-of-herd AI bull in the US. There was no requirement for parentage verification of these AI bulls in the United States, only that their DNA genotype be "on file", so that their offspring could be checked if someone raised the question at a future point in time.
It wasn't until 2008, that the ADCA voted to require that all bulls registered after December 31, 2008 be DNA genotyped and have the report "on file" with the ADCA, prior to registration. At that time, the ADCA also voted to require that existing herd sires (all bulls used for breeding) be DNA genotyped and have the report "on file" with the ADCA prior to the registration of any calves sired by those bulls and born after Dec. 31, 2009.
These new ADCA requirements for registration still did not make full parentage qualification a requirement. Full parentage qualification would have required DNA genotyping the females and that was left as "optional". In 2014, there is still no requirement that female offspring be DNA genotyped and sire qualified to either an AI sire or live service sire, prior to their registration in the United States. Dexter AI bulls in the United States, born prior to Dec. 31, 2009, are not even required to be sire qualified, they are still only required to have their DNA genotype "on file".
The DCAI Board had/has every reason to be concerned that Dexter bull semen imported from the United States may not meet DCAI registration requirements. It may seem like a huge hassle to the person(s) trying to bring in new genetics, but think of the potential downside and long-term risk to any breeder buying and using that semen, if that semen turns out to come from a bull that is later found to have registration errors in his pedigree, and is not "as advertised".
Current technology now allows DCAI breeders to proactively reduce the chances of pedigree errors from imported AI sires, and thank goodness the DCAI Board is up to this task, and willing to follow through with it. "A stitch in time, saves nine." There is no shame in doing the right thing at the right time.
Patti
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Post by cddexter on Apr 14, 2014 14:53:54 GMT -5
Patti, which Marg are you talking to?
Just so I don't get my Margs mised up again:
Rawlings: my comments related to not knowing very much about Donna, and just letting her know, in case she was one of the purity nuts, that Leo isn't, if she was interested in him. I didn't know if he was already in AU or not. Apparently he is. You brought in Mr.Right, was that an issue?
Weir: every breed started with 'registered by inspection', don't know why this should be such a stumbling block to some, right? Since no one else is doing parentage verification, other than AU I think, and assns adapt and modify their rules all the time, as long os one follows the rules of the day, you can import anything without much bother.
(OOPS JUST DID IT AGAIN. HAVE TO KEEP MY MARGARET'S STRAIGHT. Modified to fix my error...
cheers, c (carol davidson).
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Post by cddexter on Apr 14, 2014 17:38:05 GMT -5
Shari, I agree. I really dislike having people hide behind nicknames. Using just 'c', I'm as guilty, but I figure most of you know me, and it separates me from Carol Koller, even though there were a couple of posters here who got us confused all the time despite the difference in moniker. cheers Carol D.
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Post by kansasdexters on Apr 14, 2014 17:48:03 GMT -5
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outofthebox
member
If you always do what you always did, You will always get what you always got.....Albert Einstein.
Posts: 78
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Post by outofthebox on Apr 14, 2014 20:16:54 GMT -5
Thanks for the links but I am aware Knotting Leo is listed as an ‘Australian’ Accredited AI sire. The information under this listing is vague as it references some of his physical attributes but information as to potential as a sire isn’t there.
Im also aware that some of those listed have questionable pedigrees but this information is also not provided. Now knowing Leo is one is information I didn’t have before – Thank you Carol.
We are after history, thoughts (OK should have elaborated and said .............thoughts as a sire) and pics of said animal.
Opinions of overall quality of his progeny would be great and pics help.
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Post by kansasdexters on Apr 14, 2014 20:23:21 GMT -5
outofthebox,
The link on Knotting Leo will connect you to the breeders that have his offspring in Australia. See "Progeny" on his web page. The best information concerning this sire will be obtained from the breeders that have actually had his calves.
Patti
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outofthebox
member
If you always do what you always did, You will always get what you always got.....Albert Einstein.
Posts: 78
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Post by outofthebox on Apr 14, 2014 20:30:06 GMT -5
I have already been in contact with and visited two of the studs listed with his progeny.
Searching on the net gave only some of the information I am looking for. Many threads on this forum have talked about some sires at length, both good and bad so I asked the question in hopes of the same or similar responses from others, especially from those outside of Australia.
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Post by kansasdexters on Apr 14, 2014 20:49:10 GMT -5
outofthebox, There are quite a few of his progeny listed in the Dexter Cattle Society online herd book. Here is the link: www.dextercattle.co.uk/other/online-herd-book/Make sure to uncheck the box that indicates the animal is "Alive", before you do the search for Knotting Leo. When you get to his online pedigree page, you can list his progeny and figure out who to contact from there. Knotting Leo 3rd semen was not imported to North America, so we don't have any of his offspring here. Good Luck! Patti |
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Post by carragheendexters on Apr 15, 2014 6:30:03 GMT -5
Just a suggestion but I've wanted to bring this up before. For the sake of not only learning but full disclosure it would be polite if everyone would please sign their posts. Those of us not "in the know" or familiar with all the folks who own Dexters would really appreciate it. I'd like to go so far as to put not only your name but also the country you live in, but I'm betting there are some not willing to do that. I have followed this forum for a very long time and still have trouble keeping track. And for someone as anal as I am that is saying something. ;-) Just a suggestion... This is supposed to be a friendly and educational group after all. Hi Sheri, I totally agree with you, and I think it is a great idea. It is just common courtesy and good manners to address people by their name when posting to them, and to sign your name to your post. Just because this is in cyberland doesn't mean that people should abandon custom and their manners. That is a really good suggestion of putting our country as well, that way those who visit here irregularly and the guests who read this forum, will be able to follow posts with a better understanding, knowing where each poster lives. Every country has different words, different names for things, different slang etc, even so far as different spelling, eg you guys spell it "color", we spell it "colour", and it will help if they can't understand what someone may be saying. eg, you northern guys call it alfalfa, we call it Lucerne. You guys work in gallons, we work in litres, etc etc.
Now I will have to go and fix up a signature for my posts that includes Australia.
regards Louise "from not so sunny at the moment" Australia
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Post by djdewetsa on May 5, 2014 1:03:20 GMT -5
Unfortunately there are many politics in the Dexter. Why I suspect that people want to keep their identities private and not become a target from others?
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