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Post by japperwoman on Jul 2, 2014 9:14:49 GMT -5
Hello All, I have read all of the info on the recommended age for breeding heifers. E'blenn will be 14 months old when the bull comes. He will stay just under two months. E'blenn is the only full dexter that we have and she seems so small. I was wondering if there was a weight that is recommended for breeding as well as an age recommendation. Thanks in advance
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Post by emgiger on Jul 2, 2014 10:12:03 GMT -5
Hi japperwoman,
The recommended age for breeding a heifer is 15 months. If she is small of stature then I would hold off for at least another 2-3 months. Additionally, it would be helpful to know the age and weight of the breeding bull. An older bull tends to be heavier and can flatten a heifer fairly quickly, so you have to be careful. Any idea on the age and weight of the breeding bull?
Eileen
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Post by japperwoman on Jul 2, 2014 10:35:57 GMT -5
The bull is around 2 years old. He is approximately 800lbs. He is also a registered dexter. I guess my question is based on whether she is actually small or whether I am just used to bigger cows since she is my only full dexter. The only way to quantify it is by her weight. Is there no way to base breeding decisions on weight? I would wait until two months later but the bull will not be available.
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Post by emgiger on Jul 2, 2014 11:24:50 GMT -5
I have very few (if any) 15 month old heifers that I would allow an 800lb bull to breed. They usually are put in with a younger bull or AI'd. I am very conservative though. Maybe others can chime in.
Eileen
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Post by carragheendexters on Jul 2, 2014 17:28:35 GMT -5
Eileen, I agree with you on heavy bulls on heifers. We use a small yearling bull on heifers, never an adult full weight bull.
Especially in paddock mating, a heavy bull that may breed a young heifer multiple time is risky. Every time he breeds her you have the chance that she will get flattened, and risk damage to her pelvis.
BTW this is not only a Dexter issue but can be a problem in all cattle breeds, that is why many will keep a small breed bull for their heifers or use a yearling bull. Many a large breed heifer has ended up with a broken pelvis from a full size bull breeding her.
Many of our heifers are quite small so we also hold them off until they are older and larger, even up to 2 years for a particularly small heifer.
The other thing if we do use a heavier bull on a young heifer is we do the breeding in the yards where it can be controlled. Once the bull has bred the heifer, she is removed. One mating is enough for pregnancy.
So Japperwoman, how much does the heifer weigh now? You can get a rough idea of whether she is small for age or average by her weight. This info will help for advice.
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Post by Olga on Jul 2, 2014 22:30:23 GMT -5
Many a large breed heifer has ended up with a broken pelvis from a full size bull breeding her. Genebo, I think you may have misunderstood Louise. She didn't say she had this happen in her herd, but that it is a possible consequence of mating a large bull to a small heifer. I believe the advice being given is to err on the side of caution, especially when in doubt. |
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Post by wvdexters on Jul 2, 2014 22:41:26 GMT -5
Hi Jabberwoman, Your questions sound just like the ones we had when we first got into dexters. They sure do seem small when you're coming from the larger cattle breeds don't they. To tell you the truth coming from angus we held our first two heifers off months longer than we actually needed to; just to be sure.  All I can tell you is that many dexter heifers are bred at 14 mos and younger. Take a good look at her and if you think she is ready consider leaveing her in and let nature take its course. (If the bull throws small calves). If you have reservations or if his calves tend to go large hold her out this time and AI her when she's ready. Just make sure you are set up to keep her seperated from a "very interested" bull if you choose to wait. He most likely won't agree and you might end up with a bred heifer and alot of fencing work. LOL |
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Post by japperwoman on Jul 3, 2014 9:01:21 GMT -5
I am having the bull brought over just for breeding her specifically. It will be about a 4 acre pasture. Perhaps I will wait until I see the job done. Then I can move her to the house pasture for the next 18-21 days and move her back up for one more go around and see if he is interested. That way she doesn't have to be subjected to his advances full time. When I go up today I will tape her and see where she is weighing in. She is up with a 900lb midsize jersey and a jersey/dexter who is about 850-900. It is really hard to say about her. I will let you know.
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Post by lavacaw on Jul 3, 2014 10:57:30 GMT -5
Like Gene, I keep my bull in with my cows most of the time. Have not had a problem in four years. Zorro probably weighs 800-900 lbs and most of my cows are on the small side. The heifers will not let him mount them until they are ready.
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zephyrhillsusan
member
Caught Dexteritis in Dec. 2009. Member of this forum since Oct. 2013.
Posts: 1,502 
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Post by zephyrhillsusan on Jul 3, 2014 17:19:58 GMT -5
Japperwoman (I'm trying to tag you, but the function won't work), I'll be interested to hear what you tape your heifer at. I'm wondering about breeding our heifer that was 1 year old on June 6. She taped at 347 lbs. then, and I think she looks small and slight. Maybe I'm just comparing her to her dam, but she looks so small and less solid than I remember her dam being at the same age. Our bull is young, about her same age, so he isn't huge, but at this point I'm still planning on waiting till she's 15 months old. We don't have to worry about him going anywhere, so I have the leisure to wait, and September should be cooler and more conducive than August.
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Post by carragheendexters on Jul 3, 2014 19:09:51 GMT -5
Sorry you misunderstood my post Genebo, we ourselves have not had a fractured pelvis, but we do know of friends and 2 local dairy farmers we know whose large breed heifers have had fractured pelvises (don't think that is correct for plural but will do) from breeding with an adult bull.
However there is a reason why we are just so careful now with heifers. Some years back we decided to breed our non-chondro well grown 15month old heifer to our older chondro carrier bull. He would have been 7 yr old then, I don't have a weight at that age but he was 400kg which is 880lb at 4years old, so would have been around that weight, he wasn't fat. He was not what you would call a particularly big bull, about 40 inches tall.
We were there at the breeding in the paddock, and she was well and truly standing. As he mounted and she took his weight she faltered a little, lost her balance and was flattened. She couldn't get up. We quickly got a halter on the bull and tied him up out of the way. We helped her to her feet and she was very wobbly. It was a very slow and painful walk to the yards, took forever to get her there. The vet came out and had a very guarded prognosis. She had damaged a nerve in her spine and was at risk of paralysis. She treated with pain killers and anti-inflammatories which we had to keep up, and she had to have strict yard rest for several weeks and we just had to wait and see how she went.
The vet said that this was not that unusual and injuries like this do occur at breeding, or even cows being ridden by other cows when in heat.
Well she did recover, but was always a little wobbly on her feet if she ran around, and had a roached look to her spine. The breeding took, she was pregnant. After much discussion with the vet we sold her for slaughter. The vet felt that she was a candidate for calving paralysis, and even if she did calve was at risk for any future natural matings. We did not want to take the risk.
We learnt from this what can happen. We are now careful with the bulls we use on young heifers, and also don't keep small heifers that are cycling with larger adult cows.
Perhaps we are being overly cautious, but we want this to be our only experience of what can happen.
If you want to be all technical and scientific about what weight you should breed a heifer it has been determined by the experts that they should be 80% of their adult weight.
Susan, if that were my heifer, I don't think that I would breed her that weight. I have to keep converting back to KG, can't think in lbs LOL. That is about 150kg for us. I am trying to think what our heifers would be at joining, and probably would be around 200kg, that is around the 440lb mark. Using your young bull though is a good idea.
If you wanted to do the 80% rule working on 300-350kg or 660-770lb adult weight, weight at joining would be 240-280kg or 528-616lb.
Obviously for larger cattle you would have to adjust that weight up, just working on our weights.
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Post by kansasdexters on Jul 3, 2014 19:17:13 GMT -5
The experts over here (USA) recommend that the heifer be at least 65% of her dam's weight before breeding her for the first time. If the dam weighs 700 lb, then the heifer should be at least 455 lb, before she is bred. For most Dexter heifers, that corresponds to about 14 to 16 months old. For some small ones, it's better to wait until the heifer is at least 2 years old and breed her for her first calf to arrive before her 3rd birthday. Here's a reference: www.noble.org/ag/livestock/develop-heifers/Patti |
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Post by japperwoman on Jul 3, 2014 19:33:52 GMT -5
I must apologize. I did not get up to tape her today. I was finishing up homeschool reports. Excuses, excuses. I will tape her in the morning (pending I can catch her). Thank you all. I very much value all of your opinions.
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Post by carragheendexters on Jul 3, 2014 20:45:44 GMT -5
Patti, working on your 65%, that would be around what we breed our heifers at, 200 kg which is about 440lb. We find this size works to be around that age, except for the small chondro heifers, they are somewhat smaller than that, so we hold them off till 2 yr old.
It is an interesting comparison of Dexters with Highlanders (Scottish Highland Cattle) the breeders over here all hold off their heifers to join at older than 2 yr old, most often to calve at 3 yr old.
Some of the Galloway breeders do that too.
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Post by carragheendexters on Jul 3, 2014 20:50:16 GMT -5
Japperwoman, I know what it is like. Trying to find time to do anything is hard. I never get all the things done that I have to, let alone anything extra.
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