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Post by dexterfarm on Jul 21, 2014 13:32:32 GMT -5
the short answer if you want the calves resisted with the adca is maybe. send in your registration paper for the calf along with genotype of the sire. I would also send in the parentage conf and the pedigree for the calf and your check. they will probably register it.
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Post by marion on Jul 21, 2014 15:23:39 GMT -5
This thread should be put at the top as a 'sticky', as it is a prime example of what happens when people have been led to believe that a private database is a recognized registry..marion
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Post by kansasdexters on Jul 21, 2014 17:44:07 GMT -5
The bull, Parrish's Carew, is indicated as being "sire and dam qualified" in the Legacy database. That means there are UC-Davis test reports (in the Legacy database) with the genotype of the bull and of his sire and his dam.
I looked at the Legacy pedigree for this bull, Parrish's Carew, born 2011-11-20. His sire is genotyped, Parrish's Aedan, and his sire's sire is genotyped, Egan of Dog Run.
Step 1: Egan of Dog Run has both his sire and dam genotyped and in the Legacy database. His Sire is Windswept Acre Guiness, ADCA #4017, and his Dam is Keely of Dog Run, ADCA #12371. It will be a simple matter to register Egan of Dog Run with the ADCA, since he is already genotyped and both his sire and dam are genotyped and are already ADCA registered.
Step 2: Once Egan of Dog Run is ADCA registered, it will be a simple matter to register his son, Parrish's Aedan, since Aedan is already genotyped and his dam, Rosebud of LBI is already genotyped and is registered ADCA #9608. It will also be simple to register his daughter, Parrish's Carina, out of B & E Caoimhe, since she is already genotyped and registerd ADCA #14766.
Step 3: After Parrish's Aedan and Parrish's Carina are ADCA registered, the Parrish's Carew pedigree will be completely linked back to ADCA animals and Parrish's Carew (already genotyped) can be registered and given G5 status (sire qualified, dam qualified) with a complete ADCA pedigree.
You will need the UC-Davis lab case numbers for the genotype reports in order to proceed with this and Judy should be able to provide these to you.
Best Wishes,
Patti
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Post by legendrockranch on Jul 21, 2014 17:57:20 GMT -5
You will need the UC-Davis lab case numbers for the genotype reports in order to proceed with this and Judy should be able to provide these to you. Really??? Judy can supply it not the owner of the test? When I give someone UC Davis lab cases I have to sign the case report saying that a specific person has permission to use it. Barb
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Post by kansasdexters on Jul 21, 2014 18:29:39 GMT -5
Barb,
Judy can provide the VGL Case Number for the test that was done through her Legacy data base, but not a copy of the test itself, which is the privilege of the test owner. The ADCA registrar can do the same thing, if there is an animal that is "on file" with the ADCA. The lab case number (or at the Texas A&M, the accession number) simply helps the lab to verify whether or not the animal is sire qualified, dam qualified, and/or genotype "on file".
Patti
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Post by legendrockranch on Jul 21, 2014 19:03:07 GMT -5
I fail to see how having a case/accession number will help Carolinagirl. She still needs the permission of the test owner. Not only that it is my belief case/accession numbers should be held in confidence with either the registrar or Judy. There is something not right with a registrar or Judy giving out case/accession numbers on animals I've tested or anyone else for that matter without my permission. It's fine for them to see if the animal is sire qualified, dam qualified, and/or genotype "on file" only if it's not already listed on the pedigree sites, but that's the extent of it.
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Post by kansasdexters on Jul 21, 2014 19:26:19 GMT -5
Barb,
The test owner that submits a copy of the test to the ADCA (or thru the Legacy data base) essentially agrees to permit that genotype test report to be used for parentage qualification. People that own offspring of that animal can have their calf genotyped and compared to the genotype of the animals already in the database, without going through any hoops with the owner of that test. They simply provide the lab with the case number of the test that is "on file" and request parentage qualification of their animal.
Patti
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Post by midhilldexters on Jul 21, 2014 19:37:31 GMT -5
From the first day that the ADCA and PDCA registries were established as separate, the problem has been growing. All efforts to re-combine the registries has failed. It was close to happening one time a couple of years ago, ..... I was on the BOD for about 6 years and it never was even brought up for discussion as far as I recall. So how was it close to happening? Carol K
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zephyrhillsusan
member
Caught Dexteritis in Dec. 2009. Member of this forum since Oct. 2013.
Posts: 1,502
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Post by zephyrhillsusan on Jul 21, 2014 22:42:31 GMT -5
Thank you, Patti!
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Post by carolinagirl on Jul 22, 2014 8:25:48 GMT -5
Thank you for all of your input. So I guess the final answer is maybe. I am still as confused as ever. lol. I think I'll start by contacting the ADCA Registrar and see if there is anything that can be done. I really can't afford to purchase another bull right now. I'll have to use him for this breeding and work towards replacing him if I am unable to register him. That's a shame because he is a very beautiful and hardy animal.
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Post by lakeportfarms on Jul 22, 2014 8:41:19 GMT -5
Carolinagirl, don't get confused by all the chatter about permission from the owner and focus on what Patti (Kansasdexters) has written in her posts.
I don't understand all the secrecy about genotypes Barb. If you'd like to see ANY of mine just ask and I'll be happy to provide the entire thing, markers, parentage verification included. I provide the entire genotype from both Davis and Texas and test results as a matter of course to anybody who purchases semen for Mike, not just the case or accession numbers.
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Post by legendrockranch on Jul 22, 2014 10:21:53 GMT -5
I don't understand all the secrecy about genotypes Barb. Well than why won't UC Davis give it out? If it's not an animal you've tested, UC Davis won't tell you anything. Why is that? Because it's not there's to give out. If that's the way you feel Hans let's just put the number after the animals G5 listing (or whatever) on the ADCA pedigree site. Wouldn't that be something. I do the same Hans, I give the reports out to anyone that buys from me. That's the difference, "I" give it out, I paid for it. You give the reports out on Mike because "you" paid for the testing. We both have the right to give it to anyone we choose. For some third party to give the information out is where I draw the line. Edited to add: If a person were to call me and ask for a report, yes I would give it to them depending on the reason for the request, again because I paid for it. It is my information to give out. For the registrar or Judy to give case/accession numbers to another person is just not in my comfort zone.
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Post by midhilldexters on Jul 22, 2014 12:42:21 GMT -5
Exactly Barb. Ditto your feelings.
Carol K
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Post by cddexter on Jul 22, 2014 13:27:14 GMT -5
Let's get back to the original issue. Caro..I do think your best bet is to contact the registrar of wherever you want to record the animal, and find out what it will take tio make it all work. I do suggest you stick to a recognized association, only because not doing so by those before you is what's caused you to have a problem. If you choose the ADCA, Patti's information and suggestions work, so it may be enought to simply follow her advice. Either way, ignore the politics between the various factions, get your animal registered, and go from there.
The whole function of a registration certificate is to show unbroken line of descent. It was bad enough when the Pees split off (and they are floundering), but with a third person posing as an association and calling it an international registry, there's no continuity left; huge gaps in the extended pedigree, and no control over info. I certainly wish you all the best.
Cheers, C.
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Post by carolinagirl on Jul 22, 2014 15:18:28 GMT -5
One registry certainly would make things much less complicated. It would be nice for people to be able to,use bloodlines from anyone's farm without the worry of compatible registrations.
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