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Post by sharethelegacy on May 6, 2015 22:11:11 GMT -5
Want to see the pedigree of your bloodlines? Favorite cow or bull? Researcher?
The Legacy ancestor pages continue to expand. You will find listings from the Irish herd book # 1 which includes many of the breed's foundation entries, through the various years. A couple of the Irish herd books have been entered complete, but the focus has been to complete pedigrees of prominent herds as a tool for researchers. The English lines have been entered from book # 1 into the modern years. that connect with the US herd. Again, some herd books have been entered complete through the teens into the 30's. These records are NOT available anywhere else on the internet and Legacy is pleased to share this information with Dexter owners.
Legacy has attached a tab "NEWS" where you can ask questions and where information about the listings can be found.
Legacy Dexter Cattle REGISTRY.com
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Post by Cascade Meadows Farm - Kirk on May 6, 2015 22:51:42 GMT -5
Excellent Job Judy!! Seriously! I'm sure you'll support moving copies of your excellent data into the ADCA master pedigree data system so it can be maintained long after we're all in the old folks home and long after we're all buried. The ADCA database is likely to survive all of us and survive all of the minor systems. The best hope we have of having your hard work preserved for centuries, is to put copies of it in the ADCA database. I'm sure that preservation of the data is what is MOST important to you.
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jamshundred
member
Help build the Legacy Dexter Cattle "Forever" Genotype database
Posts: 289 
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Post by jamshundred on May 7, 2015 0:03:17 GMT -5
This is great fun Kirk. David and Goliath and Goliath is still reeling trying to find its feet. Great fun!
Judy
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Post by Cascade Meadows Farm - Kirk on May 7, 2015 0:38:51 GMT -5
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jamshundred
member
Help build the Legacy Dexter Cattle "Forever" Genotype database
Posts: 289
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Post by jamshundred on May 9, 2015 7:54:34 GMT -5
Kirk,
I have not researched Woodmagic. There are a few breeders out there who have, one in Australia and one in Scotland who could probably answer that question. I think I would say it was not Plover. I KNOW Grinstead Plover is not responsible for the dun.
The Grinstead herd is a fascinating herd. There isn't a cow in the world of Dexters that was not influenced by this herd. And what a beautiful herd! When I think of the Grinstead video, I see Lady Loder standing there reacting to an unknown/unheard comment from the person standing beside her, and her face and eyes light up and she has what I interpret as a wonderful tentative and shy but somewhat hesitant smile of pride.
I suppose I had a notion the Grinstead herd was a closed herd because it was so large and so long enduring in the breed, yet. . it you look through the pedigrees that was not the case. It began with foundation animals, and there were various animals added from other herds.
I am intrigued by the dun and the red. In the early Irish records there were red cattle and the percentages seemed about right for the foundation of the breed. In the early English records there are lots of red animals. Trying to trace through the Grinstead red has me wondering if the predominant color called "red" in the early herdbooks wasn't actually "dun". The photos of red animals I've found are in black/white as would be anything of those early time periods. I've been going to ask some red breeders ( like you Kirk) to take some photos in black and white so I can see how the coat color appears.
Looking through the pedigrees, the percentages, the herds with the modern knowledge we have. . . I am wondering if perhaps the colors of the breed weren't actually dun and black with an odd red here and there. That is nothing but conjecture. . . a theory. . but all knowledge flows from a "maybe" somewhere down the chain.
It is interesting to watch how the breed and the herds developed.
Oh! Something else I find interesting. Because there were a number of royals in the breed, including the King of England, there has always been the impression the breed was the darling of the rich. . . . little pet show pieces on immense estates. It has been interesting to me to see a lot of owners were military and clergy. Perhaps that segment of the population were also wealthy in England. ( Not so much in America).
It is a pleasure to see your interest Kirk. Look at all the red in the early English records! How interesting if we could discover some of that was actually "red-dun". I'm thinkin..just maybe.......
Judy
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Post by cddexter on May 9, 2015 8:59:35 GMT -5
I can help out here.
Yes, Judy, without understanding why, your guess about the military and clergy is spot-on.
England had a class system bassed on land. Basically, Royalty, Peerage (titles), then Landed Gentry, aka 'old money' (moneyed people without titles but with property, inherited money and good manners), then Captains of Industry, aka 'new money' (commoners whose financial success was recent so while they had the trappings of the gentry, they hadn't had the time to develop social 'polish'). These were called the upper classes, although the last was only just accepted and in a limited way.
It was considered to take at least three generations to develop standing.
People whose income derived from the lower end of 'commerce', usually people living in the cities with shops, and employees (shop assistants), and farm workers--this last divided into freeholders who owned their own small plots, and tenant farmers, who worked the land belonging to the first three classe, and servants, were called the lower classes.
Traditionally, dealing with the upper class, only the oldest son inherited the family 'pile' as it was called (the home estates), so the younger sons had to find other things to do. The only socially acceptable occupations, after being a land-holder, were the military and the clergy. In those days all commission positions (officer class and mostly Army, at that) were purchased, and many clerical positions were called 'livings', and the right to them in the control of the peerage and gentry (great houses had their own churches on the estate, and a good many had their own clergy just for the family and house staff). While the younger sons were still young, another accepted occupation was that of tutor to the young children of great households (filled the gap between leaving Oxford or Cambridge and buying a commission or becoming a preacher)..
The minute you see Major, or Captain, or Reverend, you KNOW you are looking at a younger son of someone with social standing, and inherited money.
And, yes, pretty much every purchaser of a 'Dexter' in the early days belonged to the moneyed upper classes. The myth about the little smallholder's cow is just that. Pretty, but pretty misleading.
Oh, and yes, dun was often associated with red. Think Lincoln Red and Red Poll: both accepted the Suffolk Dun into their foundation stock, so it doesn't take much thought, does it? And, of course, with dun being recessive to both reds, once black was out of the way, dun permanently disappeared from view. With the foot and mouth epidemics England went through, bloodlines were decimated. At this point, you'd have to dna test every sisngle animal in both registries to see if you could find dun, and even then, since we know it was there at one time, there's no guarantee the animals that survived the cull carried the gene. Too bad.
Cheers, c.
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jamshundred
member
Help build the Legacy Dexter Cattle "Forever" Genotype database
Posts: 289
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Post by jamshundred on May 9, 2015 16:41:17 GMT -5
Thanks Carol for reminding me of the class system. Way too long since I used to read the historical romances where someone born to the broom is swept off her feet by a blue blood only to discover she is actually a countess!
There were a few folks who had to make a fortune through cattle trading as the breed was founded. They must have picked the hillsides clean.
Judy
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Post by kansasdexters on May 9, 2015 17:49:34 GMT -5
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