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Post by Cascade Meadows Farm - Kirk on May 9, 2015 15:13:22 GMT -5
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jamshundred
member
Help build the Legacy Dexter Cattle "Forever" Genotype database
Posts: 289 
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Post by jamshundred on May 9, 2015 16:27:36 GMT -5
Kirk
Old news. I lost a sweetheart of a Dexter bull because he was PHA positive and that was years back. Are you forgetting one of the most respected breeders and Legacy herds in the world brought PHA to North America? Having said that.......I hope the test was double-checked. (1). Not a Legacy cow but a traditional one (Parndon Bullfinch in the pedigree) and (2) I don't see Woodmagic Wheatear but there are so many Woodmagic animals my eyes were crossing . If she is not there than something I heard years
ago might have been right.
I wish their was something I could do to ease your angst over the 4 outcrossings in your 10 line pedigree (ADCA was willing to cede 6 in some lines and 7 in others but 4 is correct and sad enough.
I would certainly say there are Legacy polled Dexters but it still does not erase those outcrossings.
Sorry
Judy
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Post by Cascade Meadows Farm - Kirk on May 9, 2015 18:00:17 GMT -5
Since dexters weren't genotyped and parentage verified in the past, we can only assume that EVERY dexter, including legacy and traditional dexters, has outcrossings and errors on their 10 line pedigrees. This PHA cow may indeed have Wheatear in her, but likely has a pedigree error, like ALL historical pedigrees do. We can't trust pedigrees without mandatory genotyping/parentage verification.
Good thing that the ADCA is implementing mandatory genotyping for females (in addition to males), so in the future, we can better trust our pedigrees.
In the meantime, since we can't completely trust the old pedigrees, it's important to focus on selecting dexters for their amazing dexter traits, and it's important to genotype going forward so we can trust the pedigrees in the future.
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Post by kansasdexters on May 9, 2015 19:08:13 GMT -5
Kirk,
There are so many examples like this, where the dam or sire is not correct in the registration of a Dexter in the PDCA and/or in the ADCA. I truly believe that it is very important for ADCA members to take this opportunity and vote "YES" at the upcoming AGM in June, or send in their proxy indicating support for mandatory genotyping of Dexter heifers born after January 1, 2016, prior to ADCA registration. This isn't a done deal, it really needs support from the ADCA members in good standing (paid 2015 dues) for the current proposal to be approved and implemented.
Patti
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jamshundred
member
Help build the Legacy Dexter Cattle "Forever" Genotype database
Posts: 289
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Post by jamshundred on May 9, 2015 22:34:56 GMT -5
I certainly think DNA genotyping is very important and I think my track record is out there. I was for it. . . when you wasn't. . or "couldn't afford it". YOU had the luxury of time and choice didn't you? Now that many have had that choice, they wish to make it mandatory for all. There's a name for that in the psych books. ( and some members of leadership have NOT thought it very important until the very, very, very, recent past, which is quite indictcative of what is really the focus) Dexters can not afford to lose any more traditional horned bloodlines in this breed, and traditionally. . . . . . it is the homesteaders and small farms who have them, and it is they who will go taking the cows with them. It has not helped that there has been no support for us for a decade. There is already a very active market out there across the country for unregistered Dexters and it is going to grow. . .who would say that is a good thing? The problem with mistakes that are made without fully considering the ramifications is that they are rarely reversible. The damage is lasting. I know. I've worked hours and hours and hours to recover cows back into this breed from previous bad choices by leadership. It is very difficult to do with any success. WHO are you going to sell those cows too when the Ponzi scheme crashes? Breeders who have not been in "exotic" breeds simply do not understand the long term detrimental effects on a breed when the fad crashes and they all crash! As the small holders leave. . . . . and the breeders pool and opportunists move on to the next fad, ( I see it starting now), who is going to buy that $2500 milk cow? Some of you may have milked the cash cow successfully to date. .. . but it will not last. . . not in this breed. The market is not there for the long run and no matter how many people buy the brochure, the percentage of new buyers that stay in this breed beyond five years is small, beyond ten is very small. I think the downturn is just on the edge of beginning here in the states. I know it is going on in England. . and I think Canada as well.
I have a pretty good track record. I am rarely wrong. . . . because I give things lots of thought. . . .I look at things from every angle studying all possibilities. This is not what has been done by leadership. They are fixated on the competition from Legacy and not the breed. They are in effect - about to close their herd book to a neighboring country ( Canada) which does NOT require the testing that will be necessary ( supposedly) to import and register a cow in the US, and they are doing the same for England. It takes only ONE generation for the problem to rear it's head, and I do not see breeders in Canada or England letting ADCA dictate their policy. YOU may think you can single-handedly save the American herd with your semen bank, but do American breeders wish to ALL be beholden to you when the now 85% of the US herd descending from one many-times outcrossed bull, becomes 95%? YOU also are fixated on having YOUR way. . and not thinking through the serious issues facing the US herd with the gene pool and the entire US herd being turned into a polled herd. Interestingly ALL
those mistakes you harp on . . .. DID NOT change or harm the US herd as the lack of thoughtful leadership did! And is about to yet again. There was a fixation on having their own way in 2004 and no one would listen when asked to stop and think. Look what happened. Well, the same momentum is going on now fueled by almost the very same people. Won't you guys eve listen or learn?
Judy
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Post by cddexter on May 10, 2015 10:24:17 GMT -5
Judy, "There was a fixation on having their own way in 2004 and no one would listen when asked to stop and think. Look what happened. Well, the same momentum is going on now fueled by almost the very same people. Won't you guys eve listen or learn?"
Yes, the ADCA did learn. And now PDCA has learned, too. The most experienced Dexter registrar in the world objected to taking direction from her employer and insisted she get to run the ADCA on her own terms. When that didn't work, she bailed out, stealing the original ADCA software and database in the process. She used those to start up a rival assn, with lots of fanfare, and some people got taken in... It took about three years for her to be in exactly the same position again: threatening to quit and take it all with her the second time, too, if she didn't get her own way. I believe the PDCA has actually experienced this twice in it's short history, both times with the same person, for the same reasons.
I'd suggest it is not the ADCA leadership, and a good number of its members, who won't listen and learn.
cheers, c.
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