Polled & Black Genes

[Clive]

Hi

Can I ask you about colour and poll genes please?

I have a load of bulling heifers from crossing a pure pedigree black Angus bull with pure pedigree horned Dexter cows (of all colours, including a brindle!!!).

All youngsters are black and polled. Although you can see a tinge of red in a couple; not sure that's relevant. And one had quite large scurs.

I intend to put these heifers to my little Dexter bull who is black. His sire is red, and his dam is dun.

Does anyone know whether the progeny will all be polled, and will they all be black (on average)? Or will I get a hodge-podge?

Many thanks in advance

[wdd]

Clive,
Your Angus was homozygous dominant for polled. All your youngster are heterozygous dominant polled (since none of your cows would have the polled gene being that they are horned). That means if you breed these heifers to a horned Dexter bull 50% will be horned & 50% polled on average. Color is harder to predict since we don't know the colors of your cows that produced your youngsters. If the cows were and/or carried red or dun then some of your heifers will most likey carry one or both of these color. A carrier to a carrier has a 25% chance of producing the carried color, so most will still be black. If none of your heifers carries red or dun then all offspring will be black but you will have some carrying red, dun or both.

[Clive]

Thanks wdd. That's clear. I'm glad you said they should be mainly black because that's what I'm after.

The cows that produced the heifers are a mixture of red, mostly black (but quite a few of which are carrying red), and a couple of duns.

[wdd]

Genebo,

Since his bull is black and carries red & dun and all the heifers are black and possibly carriers of color the worst he will get is 75% black. In order to get that every calf would have to carry red &/or dun. Example: red carrier + red carrier = 25% red, 50% red carrier, and 25% black non-carrier. Since all of his Heifers are not carriers of red &/or dun he would get more carriers but fewer than 25% colored animals. At least this is how it works out on paper, life can always be different.

[Clive]

I would prefer all black but I think I am dedicated to my little dexter bull really. It's taken me years to breed him. I suppose I ought to look around for a Dexter bull that is 100% black and is polled. But my little black bull produces great calves that are always born small but have pretty good shape. I'll have to think on that one. Not long now before I put him in.

In terms of numbers (roughly) I have 30 cows. Three are dun (forgot one), 7 are red and the rest are black. About 25% of the blacks carry red. I halved my cow numbers last year due to the risk of TB, and doubled my sheep flock.

Not TOO bothered about the colours, but having all the same colour is better for business. Selling breeding stock that vary is always more difficult.

The reason I'm using the dexter on Dangus heifers is mainly calving ease. They could probably cope with a calf from my Angus but I don't want to risk it. And I am interested in how a 75% Dexter 25% Angus will turn out.

Maybe I ought to keep a Dangus bull back this year. I could go for one that has an all-black dam. I think I know which these are but I'd get a test done just to confirm.

I assume that in the second year, that if I put these black Dangus heifers back to an Angus, I'll get 100% black again? If that's true I might just beef all the animals from the Dexter/Dangus crossing.

[ctownson]

Yes, if you put them all back with the Angus bull the calves would all be black.

[ctownson]

Gene, our red bull also carries dun - thus we can get all 3 colors out of him. We see this as a real benefit. This Spring we have already seen red, black, and dun calves that he sired. We have a number of calves coming in the next 6-12 weeks!

[Clive]

It's the polled I want to keep as much as one colour. It's great not having to disbud and they seem to calve slightly easier 'cause the head shape I suppose.

My original question didn't make sense when I just read it again "Will they all be polled and black (on average)". I think Alzheimer's well on the way ;D.

[Clive]

Thanks Gene.

[Clive]

Actually, just realised I do have a nice polled dexter cow who always produces polled calves even when put to a horned bull. If I get a nice male out of her (due soon to the Angus) I might keep him. I always get the best carcasses from her progeny. And I'm pretty sure she's 100% black.

Thanks again.

[viva]

Why is black preferred by the beef cattleman? (Silly question from a newbie)

[Clive]

Apr 19, 2013 11:23:07 GMT -5 viva said:

Why is black preferred by the beef cattleman? (Silly question from a newbie)

I don't know, over here in the UK black cattle are not preferred over other colours as far as I know. The most popular beef-wise are red Limousins. Or are you referring to just Dexters?

Maybe it's to do with the sun and heat? We don't get much of either , just a lot of rain, followed by more rain, then maybe some snow which is a nice change, and then back to rain .