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Post by cddexter on Aug 5, 2011 11:18:30 GMT -5
Gene...intentional or otherwise, please use discretion when referring to udder types. Not everyone understands some of the distinctions. You've been using milking and production adjectives when referring to good attachment, and dual purpose when referring to poor attachment. This confuses the issue.
Volume is what constitutes milking or production udders, NOT attachment. You can have excellent attachment and still have only moderate volume, perfect for that little house cow who is supplying both their owners and the calf, or just the calf alone.
Yes, there are lots of not great udders out there, but we are supposed to be the stewards of the breed, and thus are responsible for doing out poor best to match such a cow with a better bull to leave future generations with fewer issues. Please do not confer a benefit to poorly attached udders. c.
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Post by Olga on Aug 6, 2011 0:09:22 GMT -5
I like the looks of Tessy. Justus' comment was "Is she for sale?" Argh! May be I'll find one like that when I'm actually looking to buy next time. Or may be I'll breed one? We'll see...
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Post by Star Creek Dexters on Aug 6, 2011 7:35:57 GMT -5
Tessy is a very nice cow! I would love to own a bull out of her!
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Post by wdd on Aug 6, 2011 11:00:29 GMT -5
I have stayed out of this discussion since I am biased when it comes to Dexter udders. Coming from a Dairy background poor udders are a pet peeve of mine. Since Dexters can be productive into their late teens or twenties it is imparative that they have solid udders that can stand the test of time. If an animal has too big of teats for a calf to suckle or a pedulous udder that is prone to injury, mastitis, or too low for the calf to nurse, then I say that animal is not a true dual purpose animal and not a good choice for breeding the next generation (beef all babies). If you ignore the udder and milk producing function of a Dexter you create a beef animal, the same as if you breed for milking and lose the extra flesh a Dexter should carry that gives it an advantage over the milking breeds for beef.
I like the cows Marion posted pictures of. The uddders aren't perfect from a dairy perspective but great for a dual purpose animal, there is a nice level floor to the udder, good fill, good placement of the teats, and great attachments for a Dexter. I would love to have these animals in my herd. They also carry good flesh thus rounding out what a dual purpose animal should be.
Rosegay is another prime example of a dual purpose Dexter. Thanks for the pictures. Now I can't wait to see the calves I get from the Magician and Salty Rambler IV semen I bought. I hope I can get some good improvement on udders while maintaining the beefiness Dexters should have.
Gene, I don't know how old Tessy is in these pictures, but she is welcome at my place any time she wants to come. Her rear attachment is higher than you see on almost all Dexters. She has a great Dexter udder and carries the flesh to be concidered a poster girl of a complete dual purpose cow. If you are planning on flushing a cow again here is a gal to die for.
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Post by cddexter on Aug 6, 2011 20:10:48 GMT -5
Gene, you started the thread. Let's see some current pics of your cow's udders. c.
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Post by wdd on Aug 6, 2011 23:33:49 GMT -5
Gene I would love to show you picture of the udders my breeding has produced. However my first heifers weren't born until last year which makes them a little young to show what they will look like. Also they were all sold early this year to a new breeder just getting started so next year if I make it over to where he lives maybe I can get some pictures. I could however send you a picture of my daughter but that wouldn't tell you much since she would be fully clothed ;D. The animals I currently have were bought as weanlings so I didn't have the luxury of choosing them based on their own udders and took the chance that genetics would smile on me. I have some good foundation cows to start with, but it will be a couple generations before my choices in breeding will be evident. They have better udders than I have seen on many Dexters, but as I have stated before due to my Dairy background I have a hard time being too overly excited over most Dexter udders. This is a fault of mine and not the Dexters. The Dexters I mention in my last posting I liked for the structure of the udders not for their size. I have had large good uddered Dairy cows that produced less than smaller looking uddered animals. The difference can be how far forward the attachment of the udder is and especially how high in the back the attachment is. If the attachment is clear up close to the vulva there is a lot more capacity in the rear quarters. The capacity is spread over a larger area and the udder is held up closer to the body where there is less chance of a teat being stepped on, contamination getting into the udder and causing mastitis, the udder is more readily milked or suckled, ect. My posting was not intended to ridicule or belittle anyones cow. I was only commenting on some animals that had udders I would be pleased to call my own (The cows that is. I look funny enough without personally sporting nice well attached udders) A cow can be functional and productive without being a beauty queen. But if an udder falls apart after only 2-3 lactations then maybe she is a better pet than the mother of the next generation of breeding animals. Its the same thing I would say about an animal that you couldn't feel safe or comfortable around or one that has extremely bad feet and legs that could be passed on. Pets are for us to enjoy and appreciate for the happiness, joy and fullfilment they bring into our lives. Breeding stock and replacement animals are the gifts and legacy we give and leave for the next generations. So should we be breeding just any animal to try an make a buck or should we only be keeping the best of the best as breeders for the next generation.
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Post by wdd on Aug 6, 2011 23:59:41 GMT -5
Oh Gene I forgot to mention that the last I checked Saturn of Knotting had over 1920 decendents in the ADCA registry. True he only had one daughter registered in the ADCA, but his son's and grandson's (like Riverhill Saturn's Galaxy) sure put some nice udders on cows. Look at some of the Hillview, Celestial, Hiyu, RDoubleR, Belle Fourche, ect animals that trace their genes back to him. A bull can influence hundreds of progeny if he is a popular AI animal. Unless flushed a cow has a smaller impact short term but can make a great impact long term like the Woodmagic line. Maybe it was the quality of cows that were bred to Saturn's offspring that helped establish his reputation. I am sure that there are some duds out there in his progeny since genetics aren't guaranteed and there are many good animals without him in their breeding. Maybe down the road Brenn will be known as king of the A2 Dexters, you never know.
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Post by Olga on Aug 7, 2011 8:30:06 GMT -5
Gary, I wish I could draw, because I can imagine the funniest cartoon ever of a man with udders! Thanks for the visual!
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Post by marion on Aug 7, 2011 13:50:28 GMT -5
Here is a rather poor picture of a dwarf cow I owned briefly. She was in the process of drying off. Nice front attach. good median ligament. Good level udder floor and great teat spacing. I would have liked to have milked this girl as she had plenty, but would have been risking my life ;D I would have liked to get a non-dwarf daughter out of her, but needed to reduce my numbers. A bit of Klein Hydrif, Woodmagic, Outlaw, Lucifer several times in pedigree..marion Gene, there is a pic of pixie showing her udder on the ADCA black picture archive. Attachments:
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Post by Olga on Aug 7, 2011 15:57:55 GMT -5
;D You could always use Galaxy or Magician semen to get an udder like that. c. I just looked at the A.I. list on ADCA. Galaxy and Magician aren't on there. Is their semen available for purchase through you or elsewhere?
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Post by kansasdexters on Aug 7, 2011 16:01:14 GMT -5
This is Hillside Mornin Glory, a granddaughter of Riverhill Saturn's Galaxy, at freshening: Hillside Mornin Glory, one month into her lactation, after being milked: This is Fina Muirstead (we milked over a gallon of milk from her two front quarters, once-a-day milking), she is the "weaning queen" in our herd, she weaned a 520 lb Dexter bull calf at 8 months, his birth weight was 46 lb: Fina Muirstead, rear view: This is Fina's half-sister (same sire, different dam), her name is Gracious Muirstead: Gracious Muirstead, rear view: Here is Gracious Muirstead's daughter, Wakarusa OBF Gloria, Gloria was sired by Fina's son, Wakarusa OB Finagan: Patti
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Post by legendrockranch on Aug 7, 2011 16:04:59 GMT -5
Here are some of my girls in various stages. Some in milk, one just before calving, one dry. If I can find the picture, I had a cow with a case of mastitis this year. She was 2 weeks late in calving, poor thing her udder looked like it would explode. The picture below the cow could use some help with from udder attachement. Barb
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Post by kansasdexters on Aug 7, 2011 16:06:38 GMT -5
Here is Oleo Night, a daughter of Aldebaran Landis: Oleo Night, 2 years later, at freshening:
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Post by Olga on Aug 7, 2011 16:07:32 GMT -5
I ended up with just 2 calves out of Erin, Elmo and Earnie. Erin's previous owner told me that she was a heavy producer for her. When I milked Erin twice a day, after weaning the calf at 5 months, I was getting over a gallon each time - Erin was 16 years old then. The second time I milked her only once a day, never separated from the calf and was getting 1.5 gallons. I stopped milking her when her rear leg knee joint started to dislocate at random and I was afraid she'd fall on me. I put her down when the calf could be weaned. My estimate on Erin is that in her hay day she was giving 4 gallons a day. Her rear attachment was weak and got floppy with age, the front was holding up fairly well. Attachments:
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Post by legendrockranch on Aug 7, 2011 16:11:33 GMT -5
There must be several of us posting at one time Nice pics Patty & Olga. As I mentioned most of the girls I posted pics of aren't in milk, but I just wanted to give you some idea of their udders. Dang Patty, where did you get all that green grass Barb
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