|
Post by Olga on May 28, 2012 23:01:05 GMT -5
I was trying to explain the A1/A2 test result on our heifer to Justus and realized that I couldn't answer a very sound question of his: which trait is dominant, A1 or A2.
When you breed a black Dexter to a red Dexter, said he, you don't get a half black and half red cow, even if it is so genetically. So how come was I trying to explain that an A1/A2 cow will produce both proteins? Some of the quarters make A1 milk and the others make A2?!
I know, I laughed. But it's true, I want to know too, is A2 dominant over A1 or the other way around? Or is this some sort of exception?
|
|
|
Post by jamboru on May 30, 2012 7:37:17 GMT -5
It is probably reasonable to assume that all the testing has been done given the exploding commercialisation of the product. How gullible must we be though, paying out hundreds in testing fees without having fully researched the extent of the science beforehand? See below, clipping from a rural newspaper:-
Powdered milk fuels A2 China Push Simone Smith. Dairy Talk A2 MILK is moving into the powdered milk market and pushing into China. On Monday A2 Corporation announced a strategic agreement with New Zealand dairy processor Synlait Milk to manufacture A2 brand nutritional powders - milk powders and infant formulas. Under the agreement Synlait Milk will take A2 Milk from accredited dairy farms in the Canterbury region of New Zealand and make A2 brand nutrition powders at its facility in Rakaia. “This agreement with a highly reputable supplier of nutritional powders is a key step in our strategic plan to launch A2 brand infant formula products into high-growth Asian markets, in particular China,” A2 Corporation managing director Geoffrey Babidge said. Source; Weekly Times, 18-4-2012 (Vic, Au)
|
|
|
Post by jamboru on May 30, 2012 20:29:38 GMT -5
I was really refering to the testing of the distribution of A1 & A2 milk in an A1/A2 cow. Our family & friends have tested 58 Dexters, so we also have others whose status we know by inheritance. We have also read "the book" and online articles. I agree, if it helps people's health issues, that's excellent. I am just a bit suspicious about how far the royalty issue might go down the track.
|
|
|
Post by wdd on Jun 1, 2012 7:53:45 GMT -5
Gene do you know of anyone that isn't associated with the A2 Corporation that has done any studies on A1 & A2 beta casein? One of the arguments that some have to the research and claims is that the only people providing research and praising the A2 beta casein are those that are making money on it through licensing and book sales. There has been a history of companies that fund research of products paying for results that they are looking for and dismissing results that don't back up their claims or goals. That said I have tested all my Dexters but the steers which would be a waste of $. I am neutral on the A1 & A2 issue until independent research is provided to back up claims of the marketing mogal.
|
|
|
Post by nick t on Jun 3, 2012 7:19:50 GMT -5
It is probably reasonable to assume that all the testing has been done given the exploding commercialisation of the product. How gullible must we be though, paying out hundreds in testing fees without having fully researched the extent of the science beforehand? See below, clipping from a rural newspaper:- Powdered milk fuels A2 China Push Simone Smith. Dairy Talk A2 MILK is moving into the powdered milk market and pushing into China. On Monday A2 Corporation announced a strategic agreement with New Zealand dairy processor Synlait Milk to manufacture A2 brand nutritional powders - milk powders and infant formulas. Under the agreement Synlait Milk will take A2 Milk from accredited dairy farms in the Canterbury region of New Zealand and make A2 brand nutrition powders at its facility in Rakaia. “This agreement with a highly reputable supplier of nutritional powders is a key step in our strategic plan to launch A2 brand infant formula products into high-growth Asian markets, in particular China,” A2 Corporation managing director Geoffrey Babidge said. Source; Weekly Times, 18-4-2012 (Vic, Au)
|
|
|
Post by nick t on Jun 3, 2012 7:38:29 GMT -5
I don't know anything abiout dexter cattle but I can answer the query about which is dominant, A1 or A2. The answer is neither, really. All cows have two genes that determine whether they are A1 or A2. They can either have two A1 genes (making them entirely A1) or two A2 genes (making them entirely A2) or one of each, in which case they are equally A1 and A2. This is a slight generalisation because there are a few other variant genes that can crop up, but they are unusual. Some cattle breeds have a lot of A1, others (like Guernsey) tend to be very much A2 because they haven't been interbred much with Holsteins and Friesians which have a lot of A1. From the viewpoint of those wanting to market pure A2 milk because of its health advantages, it's very easy because a simple DNA test of a cow, derived painlessly from a tail hair, can tell you exactly what the gene makeup is. Originally all cows were A2, but A1 is a more recent mutation (a few thousand years ago in Europe). Human milk is A2 (ditto goats milk), so logically humans prefer A2 cows' milk. A1 cows' milk, in the digestive process, can precipitate a potentially harmful peptide. The book on all this that's worth reading is: Devil in the Milk by Keith Woodford. It's solid science and no one has clanneged it. Some people criticise A2 Corporation for making money from the DNA testing, but it's actually quite a small company that has battled huge odds against vested interests in the dairy industry that don't want anyone to know about the risks attached to A1, so I say good luck to them. NT
|
|
|
Post by Olga on Jun 3, 2012 23:48:44 GMT -5
Wow, what a saga, Gene. Thank you so much for telling us the details, it's all fascinating how much time and effort went into making A2 test available. I also agree with nick t, usually small entities are at huge odds against conventional commercial companies. Just look at the "rbGh-free" milk label! Monsanto threw a fit that companies wanted to advertise this and forced them to add "not that it would've been bad for ya" disclaimer.
|
|
|
Post by Olga on Jun 3, 2012 23:50:35 GMT -5
Jeff Chambers sent me a great link about co-dominant traits by he way, I don't see why others wouldn't enjoy a lesson in genetics:
|
|
|
Post by jamboru on Jun 4, 2012 22:04:11 GMT -5
So does all that mean that we can advertise cattle at premium prices claiming "tested homozygous for A2 beta casein" or "A1-free by inheritance" without any risk of litigation in the future? I will ask the NZ company who does our testing.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2013 17:17:28 GMT -5
So does all that mean that we can advertise cattle at premium prices claiming "tested homozygous for A2 beta casein" or "A1-free by inheritance" without any risk of litigation in the future? I will ask the NZ company who does our testing. Hi jamboru What did your enquiry uncover re advertising? Cheers Donna
|
|
|
Post by jamboru on Jun 10, 2013 7:47:40 GMT -5
From GenomNZ: The legalities that you should be aware of, is the intellectual property that A2 Corporation LTD has. The information below was taken from the A2 Corporation web site. “A2 Corporation Limited (A2C) owns and commercialises unique intellectual property (patents, trademarks, proprietary processes) relating to a2 Milk™ and related products in international markets.”
From A2 Corp: "We wanted to ask when were your cows tested, how many cows do you have and a copy of the paperwork or advise GenomNZ provided you with"
There was no response when asked why.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2013 3:36:02 GMT -5
So you have to run a commercially sized operation and advertising/selling A2 milk?
No probs then. So we should be able to tell people we have house cows available and they are A2 etc?
I will have to double check about those of us overseas who utilise testing in the States, and where this actually leaves us? Like I said, there is no way we would ever go commercial diary, but I would like it to be known if we can state that a house cow for sale is A2............
|
|
|
Post by Tamara Dumont on Sept 28, 2013 12:41:37 GMT -5
could someone post please the tests results that show that humans are A2/A2 and that goats are too? I am confused about that since I have read all the test results that I can find, but none of them show the testing on humans. I know several children that are autistic, breastfed and never had immunizations... so I am thinking that this is strange based on this premise.
|
|
|
Post by kansasdexters on Sept 28, 2013 13:55:49 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by carragheendexters on Sept 30, 2013 8:17:49 GMT -5
Hi Tamara, yes it is confusing, at some stage (hopefully in the not too distant future) I would like to write something on A2 to balance the argument for and against A2. Edited to add After posting this, I realised I should have started a new thread, nothing really to do with dominance In Autism, for some reason some people keep writing that A2 is better. The truth is, those who follow the theory of diet to help control autistic behaviours follow a casein free, gluten free diet. That is NO casein, not A2 casein is OK, but NO casein, so all milk products and products with gluten are eliminated from the diet. An interesting paper written on a pilot study testing the casein-free, gluten free theory was published in March, 2006, by Jennifer Harrison Elder et al "The Gluten-free, Casein-Free diet in Autism: Results of a Preliminary Double Blind Clinical Trial" Their conclusion was "Group data indicated no statistically significant findings, even though several parents reported improvement in their children" 15 children were in the study, when parents were questioned to guess which diet their child was on, results were 5 correct, 2 no idea and 8 incorrect. So it appears that the majority of parents couldn't even pick it from their child's behaviour. Statistically you would expect at least half to guess correctly (though the sample size is small). Published in the Journal of Development and Behavioural Paediatrics, Vol 31, Nov/Dec 2010, pp728-732, they state that there have been 14 studies into this theory and that there is no evidence. What has been shown however, that the children on this diet are showing dietary related disorders and deficiencies which is affecting their health. Another hole in the theory that A2 milk is better for autistic individuals regarding the ability of A1 milk to break down to B-CM7, the supposed evidence behind this was that it was tested on rats, and it was found that B-CM7 could cross the blood/brain barrier in these rats. However, B-CM7 has NEVER been isolated from human blood, regardless of whether A1 milk was drank, autism was pre-existing or any other condition. This is a tested and documented fact. Now I know I am going to be howled down by proponents of A2 milk, so I will state here I am not against A2 milk, nor am I for it. I am sitting on the fence. I am not trying to ruffle feathers, just balance the equation with some hard facts that are backed by reputable research and published papers. When I get some time I will write a little more on the research and papers published which refute A2 Corporations claims about A2 milk. There are plenty out there, just a little hard to find unless you have access to a CIAP (Clinical Information Access Portal) or Medline. The only information out there easily accessible to the public is the A2 Corporations controlled blurb. regards Louise
|
|