First Worming

[Gorignak]

I am trying to find the time to wade through the threads for all the information on worming and vaccination practices in the Midwest Region. I see lots of very valuable insight in there....

But, for today...... I brought the unknowns....5 of them....home to pastures that have not had cattle on them in 34 years. I'd like to get an early jump on the "preventive" parasite control.

The cattle look good....good flesh and a healthy shine.

I am very familiar with Fenbendazole and Ivermectin. We do everything ........ dogs, cats, poultry, rabbits, and pigs with the injectible Ivermectin. In some cases it is used orally, topically, or injected. We also use a 3X yearly regimen of Fenbendazole orally in pigs and "off label" in poultry.
We use Praziquantal on the dogs and cats for tapeworm control, and have used Pyrantel Pamoate extensively for basic roundworm control. We buy the Prazi and Pyrantel in bulk and meter out the doses.

Will I have most bases covered if I use Fenbendazole and Ivermectin for the first round of worming? I see a couple levels to this discussion....the "usual suspects" and the "usually not encountered" parasites. I will admit.....the short list of the worst offenders is easy to memorize.....the full list is mind boggling.

Any advice on the one month old calf's intro to parasite control. With Ivermectin, the mother rabbits pass it on to the nursing babies !!

A side note..... We are QUITE rural, surrounded by National Forest & the Buffalo National River, and 25 miles from any town. Though the isolation works in our favor most ways...we have a HUGE population of nearly every North American Mammal up to and including Elk. There is a HEAVY parasite load in the natural system. We have encountered multiple events of heavily infested local fauna.....so, if it can be there, it probably is.

I'll be up to speed in a couple of months on adopting a proper schedule for our situation. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[Gorignak]

This is not meant as a rebuttal....It is intended to place brackets around ("my reality") and, well....everyone else.

NW Arkansas is a hellhole of natural beauty. Our soil is thinner than any of you can imagine......our rainfall is more sporadic. Though we may have the same rainfall as parts of Virginia, it often comes in three events and is bone dry in between. Copperhead knows what I am talking about. Though, she gets hit with a searing flatland oven heat that we usually avoid.....our soil is so much thinner....it is 8% to 28% rock in the subsoil.

>:(I only have grass longer than 4" about three months of the year. then it grows so fast that it leaps up to the cattle's shoulders. I can't stock with enough cattle to keep it down then.....because they would starve the other 8-9 months of the year. The locals usually compress and confine and keep feeding old hay in the early spring, and cut hay off of all the pasture that they can....April/May/June .... then run the cattle back out on all the pastures. About one out of five years, we get enough rain to have moderate pasture growth for 6 months. Fescue, and other cool season grasses dominate. That is the only time that there is moisture for growth. Bermuda was nonexistent 15 years ago. being a warm weather grass, it attempted to grow when there was no moisture. The climate shift has warmed the wetter spring, and Bermuda can gain ground.

On and on....probably worth a listen on another thread, so that ALL of you can appreciate how good you have it. As I noted previously....I just had 80 acres of TIMBER.....200 year old Oaks, killed by the ongoing, multi year drought. The soil is so poor, shallow, and compacted, that the oaks root 3 to 5 feet deep. Backhoeing deeper than 5 feet reveals NO roots.....no life at all.

We worm everything else 2X - 24 days apart. That is one "worming". We kill the first worm load, then the hatched eggs, for a knockout....... reinfestation is certain. We usually "worm", using that 2X format, twice a year. Pigs get it 3X annually.

I appreciate.....and wholeheartedly support the minimal use of "chemicals". We grow a 2 acre Organic garden every year. We do feed diatomaceous earth to some to lessen the load. I have to verify that it will be safe for cattle. But, I am going to have to worm on a schedule to insure that I have not dumped 30% of my effort down the drain. I like the idea of fecal sampling....we have a great lab microscope. I need to look up a site, or get a vet-tech friend out here to teach me. We do our own heartworm checks and some blood work on the dogs and cats. I need to ramp things up. The local "wild" Elk population can't exist without chemical worming. Apparently the wild elk prior to 1750 were a variety that had developed resistance to the local parasites....We have a lot of parasites, and an extended 9-10 month season that they can remain active.

But, I need to know if Ivermectin and/or Fenbendazole will work to assure that I am not creating a situation where one does not exist....my purchase of these cattle was shrouded in enough half truths and unstated past events that I have to be preemptive here. Once I am certain of where we stand.....we will drop back to the absolute minimum.

Thanks....

[midhilldexters]

Personally I would rotate your wormers on ALL your animals. Ivermectin has been used so much there are many animals that it doesn't work on at all, sheep especially and goats.

Look into Cydectin and Prohibit for your cattle as an alternative and use them as labelled. Rotating your pastures will be a big help. Small pastures, frequent moves and long rests for the pastures will all help to keep down your worm load.
Google some cattle worms and read about their life cycle, that will be some nice winter reading for you!

Carol K

[legendrockranch]

Make sure to read all the directions for worming fully.
Some of the wormers have a precautionary statement about the time of year to worm.

For instance Cydectin states "Treatment with Cydectin pour on during the period when grubs are migrating through vital areas may cause undesirable host-parasite reactions. Killing H. lineatum when they are located in prei-esophageal tissues may cause bloat. Killing H. bovis when they are in the vertebral canal may cause staggering or hindlimb paralysis. Cattle should be treated as soon as possible after heel fly (warble fly) season to avoid this potential problem. Cattle treated with Cydectin at the end of fly season can be retreated during the winter without danger of grub related reactions. Consult you vet for further information regarding grub reactions and the correct time to treat with Cydectin pour-on".

Many of the wormers on the market have some type of similar statement. All that being said I have never heard of anyone having any type of reaction.

Barb

[Gorignak]

I have developed a sudden interest in Dung Beetles. We used to have lots of them here 38 year ago when we moved in. I have not had any grazing livestock in 25 years, and my neighbor probably uses pour-on Ivermectin as his wormer of choice.
While researching wormers, I looked for ones that were benign to dung beetles. I am not going to pass up having thousands of little helpers shoveling crap for me.
Ivomec KILLS Dung Beetles.....for extended periods.
Thanks for the Cydectin heads-up. That one has no residuals or withdrawal period. Neither does the one that I like best.....Safeguard/fenbendazole. Safeguard does not harm dung beetles either. I will use Safeguard for internals and Cydectin for grubs.

Lots of information out there, BUT THIS ONE really hits the nail on the head.
www.midamericaagresearch.net/documents/BeefMonograph.pdf

We ran the first dose of Safeguard through everything....the youngest, most stressed heifer ate 3x the hay as normal for the next two days, and her personality brightened up considerably.

[legendrockranch]

I love my dung beetles.

I posted the below picture of two rollers doing there thing across my asphalt driveway several years ago on this forum. We have two types of them here, of coarse the rollers are my favorite.

Worming for us is Cydectin in the spring, Safeguard in the fall.
Many vets don't like the pour on wormers, they feel it doesn't work as well on internal parasites.

[Gorignak]

Thanks Barb......I am going to Safeguard a couple of times, a month apart because we SAW some improvement from the first worming. I know we have warbles and a couple other nasties from hunting over the years. So, the Cydectin will be a standard spring treatment. I am in the middle of thousands of acres of National Forest. The elk that they have relocated here have to be wormed to keep them alive. Though some would think that the remote and low population would mean less parasites.....In my experience, everything has parasites....even the fish. The LONG warm season is us "southern" ranchers worst enemy. No respite from parasite reproduction and reintroduction.

IN OUR EXPERIENCE....a worming, followed by one spaced far enough for the eggs from the first infestation to hatch produces the longest and best kill.

I have to repopulate our rollers....I haven't seen one in years. I will not use Ivomec again for anything but our dogs, cats, and rabbits because of its effect on the insect population. I was also surprised at the general consensus that Ivermectin was becoming ineffective.

I appreciate the / any information on experience controlling internal parasites. If you have read this far in this thread....PLEASE .....go back and connect to the 20 page link that I provided a couple of posts back. IT IS CLEAR AND PRECISE IN DEFINING THE RANGE AND PERVASIVENESS OF PARASITES AND THE LOSS THAT YOU ARE INCURRING IF YOU IGNORE THE PROBLEM.... It is a gem of an article.

[gcf]

Side question: How do you go about repopulating dung beetles? I haven't heard of an insect breeder where you can call up and order a bag of 50,000 of them. Is it a case where if you have it (poop), they will come? Or will you be liberating some from elsewhere in your county and rehoming them? (If so, can you mail some to me?)

[Gorignak]

They can be purchased....do a Google search. A guy in Florida will send you a bag full of them. I am going to head down to a neighbor who doesn't worm his cattle. I don't agree with that, but he has 100 head and I will cruise his pasture and collect some.
I am surrounded by miles of forest....one neighbor on one side of me. He Ivomec's his 200 head religiously. All my "rollers" disappeared about 20 years ago, but I didn't have cattle to repopulate.....