Seeding new pasture

[wvdexters]

We cleared roughly 3 acres of woodland in the late winter/early spring with the hopes of making it into pasture. The hillside was heavily wooded (80% hardwood, 20% pine) and had never been logged. Many of the trees were well over 60 feet. We sold the pine logs and kept the hardwood for winter use. The branches were piled and burned.

The plan was to clear the land, lime heavily, wait a couple months and then fertilize and seed. We were hoping to have it ready for grazing next fall. Best case I know. The seed and fertilizer was purchased but then the drought came.

The drought hit hard here. We got enough rain to keep things alive but not to really grow anything. The ground has been bone dry as far as you can dig down. Too hot and dry to do anything. We hayed the girls here most of the season, only grazing them periodically. We had to put all our plans on hold until the conditions improved. Our pastures were crispy most of the season. The weather map keeps saying we are getting rain but there is none falling. We are getting some rain now, almost 2" so far from this big storm from the south Thank Goodness.

We limed heavily 3 wks ago. The ground is very acid and poor. I tested the soil and the nitrogen was also very low. It is WV topsoil. About 1/4" of topsoil on clay that turns hard as concrete.

Any suggestions? Our goal is to get our pasture up and growing asap. We had hoped to seed in the fall but they tell us we have to wait at least 2 mos between the lime and fertilizer applications. I think we will have to wait until spring to seed and fertilize now to give the lime time to work. The ground is adjacent to our other pastures and although they are not lush by any means I know it will grow a good field.

I purchased 100 lbs of pasture mix from southern states earlier this year. Should I mix this with some type of annual seed to help get it started and established? Or is this a bad idea.

The "pasture" is a hillside and cannot be tilled. It is mostly open but we left some areas partly wooded with oaks for shade and some shelter. We have only well water and irrigation is impossible. We must depend solely on rain and snow. This area of WV is located in zone 6. We get cold winters and snow. Some years we get down to -5 F and snows can be up to 4 ft. Fun, fun although after this summer's heat it almost sounds good.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, especially if you are dealing with similar conditions. This weather has been terrible and it doesn't seem like it's going to change for a while. Thanks for your help.

[Gorignak]

Okay, imagine your same situation, with a guaranteed 90 days of drought each summer. That's us in the Ozarks.....These are observations, not recommendations, our situations might differ. I am doing exactly the same with 80 acres right now.

I can't lime right now. If you did it properly, WOW...great. I don't understand who (Co. Agent...salesman???) said that you can't seed immediately. Ground limestone is not hydrated lime. It DOES take some time to work....but it won't hurt to get something started on it immediately.
I chose a mix of Annual rye and K31 Fescue. 3 to 1 ratio.
Endophyte infected Fescue is the only type that will survive in our droughty climate. Lespedezia grows well in acid and sweetened soil. Rye secures your soil for the winter and spring rains. It will also reseed if left unpastured until maturity.
Fescue is about $47./50 lbs, and Annual Rye is about $27./50 lbs. BOTH WILL SPROUT AND GROW ON ACID SOIL. For 3 acres....150 lbs of rye and 50 lbs of fescue should do the trick. Put your pasture mix down in the spring. It probably has clover, and orchard grass.

ALL my seed is up on 40 acres of SOUR...Ph 5.6 soil. I have a thin carpet of green.I BELIEVE THAT YOU COULD BROADCAST ANNUAL RYE, FESCUE, RIGHT NOW. Hurry, the window is closing fast.

DON'T WORRY ABOUT FERTILIZER UNTIL SPRING......THE CLEARED LAND...."NEW GROUND" IN ARKANSAS JARGON, WILL BE NATURALLY FERTILE FOR THE FIRST YEAR. If the leaf litter is there, you are good to go.
If you are looking for an upgrade plan....clover, or any other sweet soil grasses, I don't have any experience.

Around here, tens of thousands of acres were converted from timber to pasture in the 1960's and 1970's this way.
Helicopters would spray the timber with 24D....at the same time, the helicopter would drop pelleted seeds of Fescue and Rye. The pelleted seed would have a couple week "wait" window, and then would respond to moisture and sprout. The timber rotted much faster than normal, due to the herbicide. Cattle could be pastured in the dead, seeded timber for a year or two, until the standing timber became more dangerous. Then a bulldozer crew with heavily shielded cabs would come in and QUICKLY push the timber....pile it, and burn it.
It was a symbiotic industry....a combo of the helicopter, seed, chemical, and dozer teams.
In 4 years a farmer would have smooth, lush Fescue pasture where timber once stood. The cost was about $25 - $55 / acre. Then some added cost for the dozing, but nothing near as much $$$ as if the live timber was pushed over. Many poorer farmers would just cut the timber later and burn it, often for firewood.
THINK TOXIC, CANCER CAUSING SMOKE....!!!! Lots of cancer in these hills.

"Poor folks have poor ways" becomes...."Poor soil farmers have poor ways".

Oh yes, my response to that method of clearing......YUUUUUCK.

ADDED.... When you finally run cattle on it.....add 1/2 teaspoon of bermuda seed to a little pelleted feed each day in the spring and early summer. The seed is VERY tiny, and it passes right through them. The piles of manure are perfect sprouting medium. The local farmers spread bermuda fast this way. You need a combo of cool and hot season grasses. Bermuda fits the hot part perfectly.

2 WEEK OLD GRASS ON NEW GROUND. FESCUE AND ANNUAL RYE. ABOUT 3" OF RAIN.


A LITTLE SHADY HERE. CHICKENS WORKED IT OVER ALSO.

[wvdexters]

Hey thanks Mike. I really appreciate the help. We're getting the seed tomorrow and getting to work. Your ground looks great for only two weeks. Hopefully we'll all be lucky and the rain will keep coming for a while.

[Gorignak]

That MIX will get you erosion proof for the winter. I would get a good legume .... lespedezia or clovers on it as soon as it sweetens up. READ about Fescue....I doubt that you can plant endophyte free.... The K31 is what grows on our poor land. You just have to manage it with other grasses.
I would get something growing now, and let the cattle help you improve it.

The mix I recommended is the "no brainer" mix....but that is a good thing. It will stick with you through miserable conditions. The key is the legume in the spring. It will green the fescue up with the captured nitrogen. MAKE SURE TO INOCULATE ANY LEGUME.

I really only have survival skills on this subject....It would be nice if some experience tossed something onto the table here....BUT.....both wv and me are in a really unique situation. It is difficult to relate to Iowa soil when you have only 2" = 4" of thin brown "top"soil......

[lakeportfarms]

Gene, you ruined it for me....I have a lot of trouble reconciling "Paradise" with a go-cart track! You must have done quite a job at restoration or you're an eternal optimist

[wvdexters]

Update: We got the seed and we are planting!!! Thank you so much for your help. They say it might rain a little this weekend so we are keeping our fingers crossed. (and toes) That it will get off to a good start.

My itinerary for the day.

1. housework
2. plant field
3. sand kitchen cabinets (ongoing project)
4. help set beams in new barn we are building
5. sand some more
6. get dinner in the oven
7. finish seeding bottom field
8. pick garden
9. eat
10. shell out beans
11. Put feet up!

Gotta get back to work. There is not a lot of sitting around here, but I do love it. I am not much of a "sitter" anyway. I will be checking into the pasture seminars. That sounds like a good idea. We don't have alot of ground so I need to make it the best it can be. Thanks again!

[Gorignak]

The annual rye will leap up. The fescue will not be evident until it starts to "clump" next spring. The second year of the fescue will be the best. By then, you will need to overseed with clovers or lespedezia...County Agent can relate what works for most. Ours is up all over and we are warmer....I am going to give it a couple of weeks and maybe put just a dusting of Urea....like 50 lbs / acre. To see if I can extract all the strength and growth possible before winter.


You will be able to sow your sweeter mix in the spring. For me, learning how to graze it is harder than learning how to grow it. I am in the process of bushhogging all the open spots and small fields down to 6". Then we are broadcasting 100 lbs of urea per acre. It should provide spots to tether and erect temp fencing through the winter.

OUR COWS WALKED AWAY FROM HAY YESTERDAY.... The little rains have the grass up enough that they come up for their range cubes and then run right back down the pasture. I even saw "ole slow poke"....OZ do a little run and kick up his heels going back to the grass.


BEFORE winter ??..... we are dipping into the 40's already. I am expecting the geese to be overhead on the next cold front. Hans can tell us when they start leaving up there. The hawks are moving through now.

New barn for us too....big project, took over a year.

[redbluffdexters]

We got Gulf Annual Rye to plant on new ground today too! Can't wait to get it in the ground! Ours is between 2-3 acres.


Suzette May
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[wvdexters]

The grass is planted but we are still waiting on the rain. With two days of rain promised over the weekend, we didn't even get one drop. Now they are saying we might get lucky and get some today or maybe tomorrow. Hopefully!!!!

It has been very "chilly" here too. Temps have been getting down into the low 40's. We even had a frost warning a couple days ago. It is supposed to be warming up a little now. Getting back up into the 70's during the day. Sounds good.

[wanette]

We have cleared about 4 acres, only 50 to go, since it was cedars it is now bare red dirt, it happens to be on the only sandy area we have so have been seeding trying to get something to grow and hold soil. I threw out alot of large seeds then disced lightly and then throw out some more seeds. Some of the rye is trying to come up but I'm afraid that the last two days of 30 mile per hour winds and temps in the 90s will kill it.
I've planted a variety of seeds, annual rye, turnips, wheat, peas, fescue and a mix for deer plots. We are hoping that the hurricane on the west coast will come close enough to give up some rain for us.

[wvdexters]

;D ;D ;D I was gone for a week and found a GREAT surprise waiting when I got back. GREEN!! Yes, there is green in the fields. It is just starting but it is there. I am so Happy. Lots of work but it will be worth the effort. I had to use a little hand seeder because of the terrain. So I worked out a grid using buckets for markers and took my time seeding every 4 ft. It's kind of funny looking back. We figured it out. Guessing that I averaged roughly 2-3 mph I walked somewhere between 12 - 15 miles seeding those fields. Man I must really love those girls!

[rezzfullacres]

Sept 21, 2012 10:37:57 GMT -5 Gorignak said:

The .I am going to give it a couple of weeks and maybe put just a dusting of Urea....like 50 lbs / acre. To see if I can extract all the strength and growth possible before winter.


. Then we are broadcasting 100 lbs of urea per acre. It should provide spots to tether and erect temp fencing through the winter.

/quote]

Urea will do almost nothing for root development which is what you need in the fall...Go light on the N heavier on the P & K, you will be much further ahead in the spring...The forgotten element is LIME very important especially if you have red dirt.....

[wanette]

I am sooooo excited! RAIN! The rye, fescue & turnips I've recently planted have been up and starting to look wilted and today we're getting RAIN! I feel like a crazed grass farmer, rubbing my hands together mumbling, " The grass, the grass is growing! hahahaha"

[lindonestate]

WOW I am considering ourselves very lucky then - native grasses galore - 8 of the 15 species required for year round grazing and they are all thriving since the drought broke a couple of years ago.

But the property was very healthy even during the drought - 10 alpacas who had to be rehomed because their legs were shrinking * whoops*

[Gorignak]

The 100 lbs per acre is going on established grass for rotational "stockpiling". it did the trick and we got a lot of growth during last weeks 80 degree temps and a couple of rains.

Personally... our P readings on new woods soil are okay.....as the leaf humus composts, we have found a small N boost to help. I am working off of a profile that is probably very similar to WV....we wont get any deep root growth until the wetter spring. Right now, we are concrete below 4", it is terrible, but getting the rye up and thick is what is important for us to prevent erosion. WV and I are probably "6% to 20% grade". all over the farm. The rye roots are not as important as the perennials. Fescue only forms the smallest of sprouts here the first year....a person thinks it was a complete failure, then...bingo....it all appears the second year.
My advice is of no use to folks with good soil.....At $600./ton for fertilizer....it does pay to check out all the alternatives.
My recommendation worked wonders for us....and will probably translate well to WV..
I wouldn't give the same advice to someone in Iowa or Indiana.....