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Post by pasohorsegal on Sept 29, 2012 8:13:46 GMT -5
I am wondering why dont other breeds have the same genetic broblums as do Dexters? They are all Bovines, And what is the cause ? also cant that be bred out of them ? If Not why ? Sorry about all the questions . Im learning! www.horsetalessalestips.blogspot.com |
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Post by cddexter on Sept 29, 2012 11:34:34 GMT -5
fools rush in, etc., so here I am...
In order, here's the best answers I can give you.
1. Genes mutate all the time. Most mutations are different from one another, but sometimes they are very similar. A lot of breeds have achondroplasia, all in different forms. There are nine genes that affect bone growth. Dexters, jerseys, holsteins, guernsey, telemark, and swedish red and white all have forms of chondro. You also get chondro-like symptoms in angus and hereford. So, Dexters aren't the only ones with this particular problem. As well there are dozens of other serious defects, randomly spread among all the breeds.
2. The cause of dwarfism is Dexters is well described at the ADCA website, dextercattle.org under genetics, under chondro. You can read about it there.
3 and 4. Yes, it is easy to breed out. BUT, and this a huge, there are two reasons why this hasn't happened. First, before genes and inheritance were understood, the short, dumpy mini-fat-shetland-pony look of what became 'Dexters' was one of the original selection criteria, so dwarfism became entrenched in the breed. Early owners thought it only a matter of time before all the normal and bulldogs would be bred out, and they would be left with just the short type they preferred. Since the gene they were breeding FOR was a lethal, they didn't realize this would never happen, and it is impossible to breed just the short type by itself. And, a lot of people really like the look and so put up with the problem in order to achieve appearance (think of persian cats and pug and bulldog dogs with those appalling breathing problems because humans like the look of squashed in noses).
If you are raising Dexters for meat, there is a benefit with dwarfism: because of the way the growth curve works, dwarfs mature faster, so are already in the laying-down-fat stage by the time the non-dwarf is only at the muscle development stage. This means you can achieve marbled meat at a much earlier age.
Gene's only out two years on the chondro test availability. I mention this because he's so het on getting the 'facts' right. Also, I do have a problem with calling a dominant lethal genetic defect 'benign'. There were--and continue to be--a number of Dexter owners who cannot tell if an animal is a dwarf or not without the test, and since a lot of owners don't test, the condition can and does 'hide' and pop up later quite frequently. I can think of at least one long-time breeder who genuinely believed her animals were just 'stocky' and sold them with the verbal guarantee they were free of dwarfism.
PHA arrived in North America with the '70s import of fresh genetics from England. With an 80+-character glitch at the locus, it definitely is an undesirable mutation. Gene's quite right about why some would prefer to keep a carrier and then cull offspring who inherit the mutation. Unfortunately, none of the breed associations, other than Australia, have taken steps to control or eliminate PHA, or to require testing, so it's still very much a buyer beware situation.
cheers, c.
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Post by pasohorsegal on Sept 29, 2012 18:29:07 GMT -5
OH NO !! All I wanted was a couple of family cows to share milk with needy familys in the area. I have never in a thousand years thought having a cow of any breed could be such a pain . Now I would'nt take a chance on having Dexters as they seem to have more problums then the rest of the Dairy breeds . I also have to worry about my cow as she isnt what I call big and I had her bred to an angus...So now I will worry about birthing problums . I do Know she lost her first calf . I dont know what the problum was . she was bought from the dairy ,and then sold to a family that put three calves on her to raise then decided they couldent aford the feed her and sold her to me....I bred her to a neighbors angus becuse I had to buy five straws of semon to get her bred to a Jersey and with only one cow it wasent practal..what would I do with the other straws? I appreciate the time you both took to convay all this info but It has taken the excitement I once had for having a cow.. Guess Im too much of a horse person
First of all I do raise registered horses and in my years of breeding them I have never had a defective foal ..If I had I would find out If it was my stallion or mare and never breed it again...
Thank you again for the time you took for all this , I am learning ......and a bit dissipointed...wondering if having cows will be a good expearance or a worry! However there more cows then horses so that must say something !
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Post by wvdexters on Sept 29, 2012 20:02:38 GMT -5
Hi Paso,
I read your post. Don't let these issues keep you from getting a dexter cow or any other breed. They really are very, very manageable and sound far worse than they actually are. I am relatively new to Dexters and I admit I was very concerned in the beginning just as you are. But, navigating all of this really is very easy.
First off, I wouldn't worry about your other cow. It is a very common practice to breed jersey cows to angus bulls. I have done it myself. You will get a lovely calf; beefier than a jersey but not as meaty as a full angus. The calf will grow very well with that all that milk from his mother. With 3 or 4 calves under her belt she will do very well.
We have come into the Dexter world at a great time. There are many good reputable breeders out there who will help you choose a great little heifer or cow. Testing is easy and readily available. For us beginners, I think the easiest thing to do is to purchase good quality animals that have been tested that way we know what we are getting.
PHA - This is a strictly genetic problem. They are either born carriers or they are not. ONLY purchase animals that are NEGATIVE. Most are. Breed to NEGATIVE bulls. AI bulls will be tested.
Chondro - If you like shorties (chondro positive) girls only breed to chondro neg bulls (tall) AI bulls will be tested and their status will be listed. If you use a negative bull you NEVER need worry about having a bulldog.
In the future, you can breed your jersey to the same bull you choose for your dexter cow. The five straws will cover both of your girls. Much more economical. Most dairies AI all their cows and will provide the service to you for a small fee. They will store the straws with their own until the time is right.
Dexters are unique and a lot of fun. They are easy keepers. I really believe you will enjoy them as much as we do.
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Post by pasohorsegal on Sept 29, 2012 21:47:38 GMT -5
It appears you are good at people bashing genebo, I was looking in to getting and additional breed and since I have limited space the dexter was intresting . I first looked at the Dexters when I was looking for my first cow but couldn't find one that was near and affordable ..
I didn't post anything about why any cow including Dexters were bad anywhere! You are a master of twisting words .. As Far as raising horses they are very different then raising bovine that is why I ask questions..If my questions bother you I will ask elsewhere and I would invite you not to read them since you are misconstruing my questions. Thank You.
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Post by Olga on Sept 29, 2012 22:05:59 GMT -5
Wow, just wow! Your logic defies me, pasohorsegal. This is where I tell myself: there can be no dialogue.
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Post by pasohorsegal on Sept 29, 2012 22:23:26 GMT -5
Ditto!
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Post by Olga on Sept 30, 2012 9:34:40 GMT -5
In my opinion, you didn't say anything uncalled for, Gene. There is no help for some people.
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Post by pasohorsegal on Sept 30, 2012 9:46:35 GMT -5
Yes I agree Olga , there is NO help for those that lie and degrade others !
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Post by lakeportfarms on Sept 30, 2012 14:02:16 GMT -5
I'm sorry Gene and Carol invested the time to write such informative posts and rather than being thanked they are criticized, and not in a constructive manner. Same for WVDexters...
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Post by copperhead on Sept 30, 2012 21:39:36 GMT -5
Yeah, makes me wonder whats the purpose of asking a question, when you already know the anwer. Dexter do not have "more" problems than other breeds, we DO talk about the problems and do try to control and inform people of those problems. Makes me proud of us as a whole, we don't sweep these genetic problems under the rug, we bring them out into the light. And NO, I don't think shorties are a genetic problem, I'm talking about PHA, and the problems that arise when two chrondros are breed. Education is the greatest deterent to any problem !!
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Post by cddexter on Sept 30, 2012 21:55:20 GMT -5
It's okay...I don't feel criticized. I put the info out there, I can't make her rational. Actually, I was more offended by the appalling spelling. I guess with all this TV and texting, no one reads any more, or pays attention in class, either, so figures anything phonetic is acceptable.
Might as well hijack the thread for a bit...we have a highway sign here in BC that says: TRAFFIC LAWS ENFORCED BY CAMERAS. Now we all know there is no way a camera is going to pull you over and write a ticket. I think what they really mean is TRAFFIC LAWS REINFORCED WITH CAMERAS. I have this fantasy about putting gummy stickers over the word camera, replacing it with butterflies or bananas or something, just to point out how really stupid it is. I'd probably end up in jail for defacing a sign rather than thanked. sheesh. cheers, c.
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