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Post by ittybittyfarm on Feb 2, 2013 8:33:47 GMT -5
Again, thank you for all your insights everyone. Gorignak, I can't imagine the stress of having the bulldog calf. I'm in the process of testing my little herd now, and I am only going to purchase a PHA & Chondo-free bull. I'm also going with something that's polled--just my preference on all of these. Colour is not a deal-breaker with me. Rosie is red & Zena is black. Both are beautiful!
From the other comments here, I'm guessing I should look for a bull who's 2 years old or better--just so his personality & characteristics are well-defined. I'm hoping to find something that's been well-handled too.
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Post by hollydzie on Feb 2, 2013 8:36:26 GMT -5
You hit the nail on the head Gorignak, I thought it for a long time. While someone can have good information and share it, others seem to take it to a different level.....Just thought I would say I agree. If there was a like button I would have just liked it....
narcissistic
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Post by hollydzie on Feb 2, 2013 8:52:24 GMT -5
ittybittyfarm ~ If you purchase your bull from someone who has experience and knows their bloodlines, you can purchase a younger bull. We just purchased a bull calf in Oct. he was 7 months old. He came from a very reputable breeder who knows her animals well. He is a doll, and growing into a fine bull. Part of the problem was our lack of knowledge too. We did things like play with his head and "teach" him bad behavior unknowingly.
My point is do your research, talk to a lot of breeders, ask questions. You can purchase a young animal and he will be a good bull. The person that we purchased our new bull from also guaranteed him. She will buy him back it if he turned out to have behavior problems or serious conformation faults.
Another thing I learned in building my little herd. You get what you pay for. There are a lot of people on here with good animal, they will help you choose wisely. If you find an animal you like post his information here, before you purchase. Another thing make sure he has been tested for things like PHA, Chondro etc. and properly registered. Good luck in your search.
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Post by dexterfarm on Feb 2, 2013 9:54:10 GMT -5
Gorignak, yes i think the trend is for larger bulls but we dont use those. Now that you have the nutritional needs met it should not be an issue for you. That being said a fully grown bull is a lot heavier than a yearling heifer. A healthy yearling should have no trouble supporting the bulls weight despite the size difference they are much stronger than they look.
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Gorignak
member
Farm Facebook page is now up. Stop by and say HI !!
Posts: 569
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Post by Gorignak on Feb 2, 2013 9:55:29 GMT -5
hollydzie......LOUD applause for your last post. You will find a bit of resistance at "revealing" flaws in the sales process and the sales-people. It is time, folks. In fact, Kirk obviously has a lot of information that would be invaluable to novices. His delivery negates the impact considerably. Been there....done that.....??!! It is time, folks, to understand that a lot of the "shuck and jive" surrounding the sales process of Dexters has reached an evolutionary dead end. Those that don't adapt will be ruthlessly "culled" by a system that allows closer and closer scrutiny. If I comment further....I will be seen to be focusing on individuals...I DO NOT mean to do that, but the entire community is going to have to decide what is right, proper and acceptable. It is sunset on the days of the "Dexter Mafia" controlling the dialog.
Anthropomorphic treatment of animals is a DEAD end.....with you ending up dead in the end if it goes awry. I am in the pen, loving on my horned bull every day.....BUT, I don't forget FOR ONE SINGLE SECOND what I am dealing with.
These folks need help....not flummery (meaningless or insincere flattery or conventions). EAT YOUR PROBLEMS, AND SET THESE FOLKS UP WITH SOUND CATTLE.... Life is too short for 5 year mistakes. Buyers....STUDY, STUDY, STUDY......What an overwhelming tool the internet is!!!!
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Post by lakeportfarms on Feb 2, 2013 10:09:32 GMT -5
Nice response Hollydzie...We constantly tell people that if you're making an investment in something that has a 15 or 20 year lifespan, it is worth the extra effort and cost to get higher quality. Also, your bull is 1/2 of your future herd, so it's important to choose well and use the experience of others to help make your selection.
It is possible young heifer can be mismatched to a larger, older bull during the period of about 12-16 months of age. A lot depends upon the physical structure of both. Some bulls tend to stand upright more, and others tend to rely more on the support of the heifer they are trying to breed. We've noticed the chondro heifers with non-chondro bulls tend to be this way. Some bulls don't know when enough is enough and wear the poor heifer out after a while, so they are fatigued and their front legs will spread.
Since we calve year round, we'll also have the problem with footing during muddy, snowy, or icy conditions. During these periods we either remove the bull or the heifers from each other to minimize the risk of injury. We try to have a spot for the breeding where we can easily observe what's happening, but also has good conditions/footing, but sometimes mother nature doesn't cooperate. Our youngest heifers are now being bred by our future replacement bull, as Mike would just be too heavy for them and he isn't as nimble as he once was. He is still quite good with the larger cows, but we notice in his old age that he waits until the time is right before he expends the effort, and he's done within a few hours.
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Post by tonhou on Feb 2, 2013 13:56:09 GMT -5
Bulls down under must mature much earlier - most breeders will separate heifer and bull calves by 6 months as too many unfortunate matings occur.
--Tony
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Post by rezzfullacres on Feb 2, 2013 13:58:01 GMT -5
From the other comments here, I'm guessing I should look for a bull who's 2 years old or better--just so his personality & characteristics are well-defined. I'm hoping to find something that's been well-handled too. We TRY not to breed our heifers until they are about 16 months old, things do happen but that is the guide that we use....As far as the age of the bull it may serve you well to look for a bull that has offspring on the ground you can look at.....A bull can look good and yet still throw some undesirable traits, the offspring need to pass the eye test..... One other thing, get some other people to look at your prospective purchase, a set of eyes with no vested interest can see things you miss.... Good luck to you
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Post by ssrdex on Feb 3, 2013 1:03:30 GMT -5
I know this is all very serious business, & some of us are breeding for the master race of dexters 😜...but don't forget bulls are just COOL. Bulls snort & grunt, paw @ the ground, bellow & just act bully. When I bought my 1st pregnant cow & her heifer, part of the draw was the bull the guy had. He was a mini tank! I don't mean to downplay the responsibility in owning a breeding bull, but they bring personality plus to the herd! www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKqEBNT8M7I&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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Post by lakeportfarms on Feb 3, 2013 6:33:55 GMT -5
Joel,
You're right about the personality and stature a good Dexter bull brings to a herd. We used to live 60 miles from our farm, but our house also had acreage and so we would bring the cows due to calve back there to keep an eye on them. After a month, we'd load them up with the calves and take them back to the farm. Mike always greeted us alone at the gate when he heard the trailer backing in. I wish I had a video of him....this waist high, 900 plus pound boy would stand at the gate, with the sweet look of "whatcha got for me?", and we'd open the door and as the cows would jump out, he'd lower his head, arch his back, and turn sideways to them, very slowly, with the look in his eye that they get when they posture. As they would make their way into the pasture, he'd turn and happily start trotting after them. A month later they would be bred, no intervention required on our part. As to the serious part, I also watch him toss 800 lb. round bales like a beach ball, that I can barely move.
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Post by ltfdexters on Feb 17, 2013 10:42:36 GMT -5
4 years ago, we went looking for two unrelated cows and a bull. The cows - well, one was 5 and one was 7 YOA. The 7 year old is a big black solid polled mama, the 5 year old was a big dun rangy-looking dehorned girl, both were already preggers.
The polled bull we bought was only 14 months, young but already showing a strong and sturdy demeanor; he also carried all three colors - black, dun, and red, even though he was black. The cows treated him like a baby brother (since they were both pregnant they had no interest in him "that way"). He was the happiest lil fellow ever; and immediately started to cuddle and demand scratches. He could lift you off of the ground accidentally when he tried to cuddle, but a quick smack on his very hard head stopped that.
None of the animals we bought were related; all from different lines.
The heifer that came from the older cow was unremarkable, and the bull that came from the younger cow was rangy and unsatisfactorily configured like his mama. We steered and later butchered the latter and kept the former. The next breeding - both with our own bull - produced another bull calf who had all of his father's sturdy characteristics (he pulled two blue ribbons in our county fair, even tho' he was a lone Dexter among hundreds of Angus). Nevertheless we steered him and this year is in our freezer; much better quality of meat.
We like having our bull because we are breeding for characteristics; sturdy and solid build, good temperament (our breed cows are more grouchy than he, but still love their alfalfa cubes and shoulder scritches). We bred him back to his first daughter who produced a lovely black heifer as well. Up until this year we have automatically steered all the males and traded all of the heifers. This year, however, our breed cows produced one dun bull and one red heifer from our bull. I am planning on selling these as a breeding pair; their conformation is perfect, their temperament lively and happy. In an area of "all Angus, all the time!" - some smaller landholders want a smaller family type breeding pair. Even though they share the same father, their mothers are different.
On fencing and care - We neighbor two different Angus ranches; once they found out we had a bull on premises, they tell us when they move their heifers to pastures adjoining ours. Our bull thinks that he is a real lover-boy (even though most of the neighbors' Angus heifers look at him as a long-legged calf among them!). We put up a solar-powered electric fence between the pastures after he escaped over to them twice. He hates it and will not go near it after his first encounter. All of our fencing is 5-string barbed wire, except for the corrals which are board-fence, which normally keeps everyone else in (except for one heifer, who used her horns to separate the strands and step thru!). We do not have birthing or nursery facilities for our girls; they drop them whereever, clean them, then bring them in to the corral where we have two pole barns, which is their feeding spot. Two freshly-bred heifers that we traded last year dropped some beautiful calves for our neighbor/trading partner this month as well. We do close off the pasture from the corral when blizzards are coming, but we really don't have to - when bad weather threatens, our horse (who thinks that she is the herd mama) herds everyone into the corral and pole barns.
All in all, we like having our own bull, like not depending on technology but on nature (in a county of less than 20,000 people, I know of at least 6 people who can AI - not including our vets), and having a good performing breed bull who is also a pasture buddy. Yes, some folks ask us why we don't AI because it's cheaper than feeding /medicating a bull all year, but we just tell them we are breeding for conformation. We have some ranchers around us who would never straight-line breed, and some who do it as a matter of course - neither group seems to have any more problems in the calving shed or with conformation than the other. Although through trading/selling out the heifers we only had our two 'starter' cows to produce again this year, we have two year old steers and one year old heifer, all from our herd bull, all with good conformation and attitude, and all being raised as a family in our pasture - until it's time to sell, trade, or butcher. Two months ago, our trading partner intimated that perhaps we would like to expand our bull's proclivity to other ranches. After seeing the good conformation in the Dexter calves he got from the bred cows we traded to him, he is an enthusiastic supporter of the breed. As a hay trucker, he knows a lot of contacts who are looking for a good sturdy, well configured, polled bull with whom to breed not only their Dexter cows, but also some Angus and Hereford heifers who would benefit from delivering a smaller calf the first time. We are negotiating...
We tried separating the bull and older steers from the cows and heifers - we wanted to get everyone on the same breeding schedule. It worked, they now all drop their calves within a week or two of each other - but seeing our bull and steers standing at the separating fence, mooing and mooning at the girls all day was disconcerting to say the least! ;D
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Post by mark on Feb 20, 2013 20:29:23 GMT -5
Hi Itty-bitty: We have been in a very similar situation as you. We had a foundation herd with a similar plan to sell heifers and market beef. When it came to breeding, selecting a bull or breeding AI depended on the improvements that we hoped for in the progeny. Our goals, generally speaking were to improve hip muscling, udder attachment and maintain quality feet. We also preferred to have our bull calves retain a masculine look about them. In the end we used AI for some cows to make specific improvements (with fingers crossed) and our bull with others. Having a variety of sires represented in calves made it very interesting to evaluate and a lot of fun too. Our customers also seem to like the idea that we have different sires represented. More to choose from I suppose. In Ontario, semen is a little tricky to get sometimes, so we try to be very proactive keeping a variety of bulls in the tank so to speak in addition to our herd sire (Revier son). We are very excited what he produces this spring. Hope this helps.
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