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Post by jdcarnathan on Jun 19, 2013 7:34:30 GMT -5
I have a small little hobby farm with 3 cows and a young bull, the cows are thought to be preg but once the vet palpates them we will know for sure. He also was gonna offer me a discount on some vaccinations if I wanted some. I know the fella I got them from didnt vaccinate them, only wormed them last year. They dont look wormy, but I think while they are in the shoot I will have them wormed again, and do a pour on the bull. The cows are between 2-3 yrs old depending on the bovine. Any recommendations, I am not a huge fan of vaccinations (even in kids....I grew up fine without many of them ) but I would also like a healthy herd. In Arkansas near Olga, however no other cows neighboring me either. Also what is everyone using for insecticide, I have done the spray for these poor moo babies, but the ticks are winning the battle and flys are rallying back. Does anyone support the ear tags?
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Gorignak
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Post by Gorignak on Jun 19, 2013 11:23:43 GMT -5
Cydectin now...then Fenbendazole/Safeguard in the winter. There is a link to a wormer video on the links section...worth the watch.... It's not the individual surviving without vaccines....I did fine....my kids got every one and a couple extra. Vaccinating is not a personal choice...it is a practical assessment of risks. You don't feel the risk....you don't vaccinate. I am so rural, that wild animals are the only means of ingress that diseases have on our livestock....THAT LIST IS LONG ENOUGH.... I don't trust my neighbors....and would expect the worst from their decisions. I once saw a nearby farmer bury a pile of dead pigs the size of a small house.....was it cholera or was it the herbicides he recently used extensively???
My point is....you do your best....do you trust everyone around you ?? I have pigs.......one year, probably 18 years ago, I brought a load of feed home that I had just had mixed. I had changed formulas and added a couple hundred pounds of Alfalfa meal to a ton of the feed. The second evening, as I was feeding the pigs....I saw one in a corner...telltale droop to his ears and tail.....vomiting this green spray......OH GOD...I was sure that the alfalfa meal had a bad effect, and I was about to go get more feed to dilute it.......when all of the pigs stopped eating....THE SCARY THING WAS, SO DID ALL 5 MEMBERS OF MY FAMILY......zero appetite....light malaise....we did not throw up....but we didn't eat much for the better part of a week. After a week we were all happy piggies again !!! WHO....WHAT.....WHEN....WHERE....WHY.....HOW did this make it onto the farm... The feed mill.....the WalMart....the mail
Patti Adams just posted a good tick pour on, on another thread. I am Organic for 40 years....except where I have to correct/salvage/remedy established problems that evade gentler fixes. I will gradually eliminate the chem fixes one by one....as I gain control....
Good Luck......
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Post by jdcarnathan on Jun 19, 2013 12:56:38 GMT -5
Mike I always enjoy your responses that I read on here. Do I trust my neighbors.....as people yes, as fellow cattlemen...a couple. I agree with the risk management as well, I know my neighbors vaccinate as I have helped them, BUT I was trying to decided if I was going to. I would like to go organic eventually and will get some good ol guineas as soon as they hatch and know where home is to help a bit with the ticks but until then I must do something. Thank you for your input, and I will watch the video. I was driving through Boone and Newton county on the way to Branson and love it in the northern part of the state (understand your NWA).
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Post by jdcarnathan on Jun 19, 2013 13:00:00 GMT -5
Also Mike are you worming twice a year it looks like? I figured once a year would be good since I am only running about 5 cows on 46 acres
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Gorignak
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Post by Gorignak on Jun 19, 2013 13:20:19 GMT -5
Me too....6 on 80 acres......BUT....years ago, my neighbor ran "free range" cattle over the whole mountain....I brought in goats, didn't worm....they all died of worm infestations...I was in my 20's and novice to all but pigs at the time. We have plenty of deer and Elk to act as pools of re-infestation.
SO....as will be recommended .....get a vet to do fecal floats and you will see your worm load. WATCH THE VIDEO first....it shows the hibernation periods for the various worms...not when you think and hard to measure. PLUS....WARBLES....if you have never dug grubs out of the back of a deer....or a squirrel, well, these are larva of flies of various sorts....The Texans can tell you more about them. Cydectin is the best on the grubs.
Diatomaceous Earth has to be considered where applicable. As for vaccinations.....though cattle have not been affected...West Nile is playing havoc among the horses around here in wet years. AND, we have had a real problem with RABIES, with several cattle testing positive. I vaccinate against rabies. The vaccination against undulant fever, has to be administered before 1 year of age, is my understanding.
ON AND ON....case by case....careful evaluation and application in your area would be prudent,.
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Post by jdcarnathan on Jun 19, 2013 13:30:25 GMT -5
Thats true, I have pulled grubs out of a few young deer. I was thinking rabies as well, and then I reckon the cydectin. Are you doing pour on, or injection of the cydectin. I will prolly do pour on my bull since he will stay in the field and is a big baby and loves attention, and then injections on the others since they are gonna go get "probed". After living on the east cost for the past 8 years I didnt remember how bad ticks were around home. Such is life, we are the Natural State/Bear State!
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Gorignak
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Post by Gorignak on Jun 19, 2013 14:11:59 GMT -5
The video puts a bad face on pour on...but I use it for now. I am captivated by the "drench".....halfway between pour on and injections.
CHIME IN EXPERTS PLEASE....I have seen enough about necrotic tissue around injection sites to give me pause....ANY EXPERIENCE. I am used to 1-2-4 CC injections. I think this is a much larger "shot".
Your vet is going to be a help....but he is going to probably deviate little from current "standard practices"....not a bad thing, BUT........
The mention of less ticks on the East Coast has brought to mind a horrifying thought that I had some years back....DDT is incredibly powerful and persistent ...... I hunted every briar patch and bullrush in 4 counties north of Baltimore, and in Western Maryland, for 10 years....and I didn't get a half dozen ticks on me.....In fact, now that I have the wilds of NW Arkansas to use as a measuring stick...I am wondering if the bugs were ALL wiped out, except for the Japanese Beetles....when I was a child, by the massive spraying of DDT that I remember..... So much for my prostate,I was in clouds of it at times. OUCH.......
An additional thought....It might seem like I am just issuing a blanket endorsement of all the various med practices that are touted as necessary to healthy cattle....nothing could be further from the truth. I bought someone's problems...and many of you have also. I have a lot on my plate, and I want to be sure that something does not sneak up and bite me on the butt...."wait and see" is not a sound policy. Prudence dictates that we eliminate potential disasters.....initial worming is a MUST.....continual worming is a decision to be based on specific situations and sound testing practices. Formulate a plan, based on experience and information.
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Gorignak
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Post by Gorignak on Jun 19, 2013 15:26:36 GMT -5
This is part of the question "do you trust your neighbors"....When I brought my cattle in on July 16, 2012 and put them on the first 4 acre pasture...they were immediately covered with all the types of cattle flies...especially a horrible amount of horn flies. My neighbor has 150+ cattle...and few management practices. I could quickly grab the base of my cows horn and come away with my palm covered in blood !! UGH.
NO IVERMECTIN...it kills dung beetles....Now....the dung beetles have the manure pats boiling with activity within an hour....the chickens and ducks....BUT MOSTLY OUR PERSONAL FLOCK OF CROWS....YES, CROWS, TEAR THE PILES APART. We maintain good relations with "Uncle Bob" (at least 12 years old now) and his band of groupies....biscuits and hard boiled eggs out the back door. Crows can tell you, more than any creature, what is going on around the farm....We know crows...we have had one...Ed....living in the house with us for 15 years now..... THE CROWS DISASSEMBLE MORE MANURE PATS...FARTHER FROM THE COOP AND BUILDINGS THAT ALL THE CHICKENS AND DUCKS COMBINED. TOTALLY REDUCE THEM TO A SMEAR ON THE PASTURE.
I CURRENTLY HAVE ZERO HORN FLIES.....and less than 50 other body flies per head. We used Cydectin in the early spring....but not since then. We are prepared with chem measures....but I have a sneaking suspicion that the combination of manure control, AND THE YEAR THEY HAVE SPENT GETTING HIGH QUALITY MINERALS ( Right Now - Bronze and Onyx)has made a difference. Their coats are brilliant .... shiny ..... slick .... and sleeker than any cattle I have seen. The heifer that we are milking, and has gotten the most and best care.....HAS ZERO, ABSOLUTELY ZERO FLIES...HORN OR BODY ON HER !!!!! I think a healthy cow attracts less flies. Believe me...I DON'T know what I am doing....but I like the results.
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