PHA carrier descended from Wheatear

[marion]

I never thought to post this earlier. A friend bought this older cow and she tested to be a PHA carrier, from Wheatear without Priapus. Same line of descent as Fillsey but branches off at Yanne:

www.clrc.ca/cgi-bin/pedigree.cgi?_breedcode=DR&_countrycode=CAN&_association=17&_regnumberprefix=&_regnumber=1806&_regnumbersuffix=

[cddexter]

just going to say you're up early, too, then realized it's already quarter to nine for you. I'm heading out to an early ferry about an hour away, checking out property around Victoria.

Thanks for letting us know about Hollis, Marion. I'd only ever heard of Fillsey being positive. I'd always wondered with only one animal other than Priapus being confirmed a carrier, whether the fillsey test was a fluke. I think now I won't bother trying to talk Eric into desecrating Weathear's resting place after all this time. And, you just saved me a couple of $thou. cheers, c.

[Deleted]

These things always have a starting point - its the locating of it that is sometimes the biggest issue.

What I find is the biggest shame in being able to identify the 'starting' point is the chinese whispers and the great lack of understanding that has come with it, not to mention the 'Blame game'.

There have been a few times in our "short life" as Dexter owners when we have had to 'defend' the Woodmagic lines because of this.

Long story cut down very short:

We have, I would say half our herd carrying woodmagic lines and intend to continue with this blood in a closed herd breeding program.
Some of our also "short lived" as Dexter owner friends have made comments around 'OH I wouldnt, you'll end up with that PHA' or ' What about PHA'

We know this came from a lack of understanding of PHA and a lack of checking out what one had been told. But it is so frustrating to feel that we have to 'defend' these types of comments.

[marion]

Donlin, there is nothing that needs "defending". My post was simply information. Perhaps a bit of history.. When PHA was pinpointed to have come from Canada, and spread to Australia and the US, and then Priapus tested as the source, his sire Cluny tested PHA free and for quite a while it was not known if it originated with Priapus. When John Potter was able to test Fillsey, that line went straight back to Priapus' dam, Wheatear (without Priapus in the pedigree). The information I gave about Hollis simply reinforces that knowledge, as other descendents of Wheatear have so far tested non-carrier. This shows that PHA came into Canada with Wheatear. It is not a witch hunt, it's just additional interesting information that follows along from past discussion on this board..marion

edited to add: Wheatear is all Doesmead on the south side of her pedigree. Given the concentrated breeding in Beryl's herd, it would seem to be extremely unlikely that PHA came from the Woodmagic side of the pedigree. I don't know to what extent they have tested in England, but perhaps the extra bit of info on Wheatear might be useful to someone 'over there'. Thank heavens we can so easily test for PHA now.

[Deleted]

Marion I wasnt saying _your_ post required a defending response from me at all.

I just re read what I wrote and Im still confused as to how this could have been the interpretation of what I wrote?

Did you scan, and not read my post ?

[wdd]

Before anyone points out that there is a connection to Priapus through her Sires Dam, Bradner Hilltop Dunston tested PFD not PCD like his get Aldebaran Hollis.

[stephanie]

This is a subject that has always both interested and rather irked me. 

However as my cattle are - (apart from Nutlin Ginger Spice who is about an 87% mix of Woodmagic and Doesmead blood) all Woodmagic and I have had no problems but I shall test all the Dams and the stock bull for PHA this coming year and see what results I get. I am assuming I would have seen something by now if mine were carriers though?

Stephanie

[marion]

Hi Stephanie. Wheatear lived a long healthy life in Eastern Ontario with many descendents. We (Canadian breeders) were astounded when PHA was found to originate with her, never having heard of anyone experiencing such a thing. Then, that year I heard of a breeder not too far away who had lost a cow to PHA the previous year. She had no idea what it was, knew her cows did not carry chondro (and confused as to the birth defect) and was so devastated she put down one elderly cow and sold the rest of her herd off without papers. She had used Priapus on the favourite cow she lost.
Then there was a flurry of testing, and sure enough PHA was being carried in a significant number of animals. Our registry database now shows results for those who test and report. I fear that the PHA issue is "going quiet" and that there are cows being bought and sold by people with no knowledge of the potential problem. I always wondered how far the UK went with their testing. Wonderful that you are going to test! I did all my breeding stock at the time, even the ones that did not have Wheatear in the pedigree; luckily all were PFD :-) ..marion

[ssimons]

At the risk of being thought ignorant, I would like to know what PFD and PCD stand for. I've not run across them in any discussions before. And are they a potentially lethal condition, or merely a descriptive genetic condition?
.........thanks

[emgiger]

ssimons,

We are all on our journey of learning and there are no ignorant questions, whatsoever.

PCD = PHA Carrier for allele specific to Dexter, PFD = PHA Free for allele specific to Dexter

Eileen

[ssimons]

Thanks folks, for clearing that up. The background info is always very informative too Gene, thanks.  Probably saved me some money.i wouldn't have been aware enough to ask for Dexter specific testing.