Are Dexter color genetics unique? Mystery Solved!!!

[cddexter]

Gene, this discussion is about color, not notched ears, which were discussed recently elsewhere. How about moving it to where it belongs so as not to hijack this thread? c.

[marion]

Jul 17, 2013 22:15:35 GMT -5 @genebo said:

I had a rather long and enjoyable talk with a man who claims to have introduced notch ears to Dexters in the US. He bought a cow, already bred, from a Canadian. the cow had a bull calf that he registered as if he was the breeder. That bull calf had ears that were notched so badly it looked like he had 4 ears. He used the bull for breeding until he noticed that all of his offspring showed the same notch ears, then he sold it. He worked for years to eliminate notch ears from his herd, but still, to this day, will occasionally have a notch eared calf.

The person who bought the bull was supposed to have eaten him, but didn't. The bull was sold to another person who had him collected for AI. Notch ears spread across the land. She sold out and got completely out of Dexters. If you search hard, you can still find straws of that bull available for AI. There is no mention of notch ears in his ads.

Y'all be careful out there. All is not as it seems.

Gene, what is the point of this post? It seems that using the guise of a story, you are somehow attempting to attach the notch-ear trait to Canadian animals and to warn people off in some way. Patti has posted in the past about the cow that was an early import into the US, who was the original source of notch-ear in America. I had a bought in heifer a few years ago who had a small ear notch (I knew she had the notch but she was a quality animal in every way), and when I read Patti's post and checked pedigree, sure enough it went back to that original (US) import cow.

[marion]

Jul 18, 2013 10:22:13 GMT -5 @genebo said:

Marion, pull your horns in. What is the point of your post? You have a vivid imagination, imagining that my story had any intent to warn people away from Canadian Dexters. You've been deliberately misinterpreting my posts for years and criticizing all I write. Now that you've gotten yourself appointed moderator, why don't you just edit my post to make it say whatever you want it to say?

In the interest of propriety, I didn't name the person who told me the story. If I had, and you knew from whence it came, you wouldn't be taking another opportunity to jump my case. You would be bowing to his expertise. So would Patti. You should get her permission before using her to try to attack me. I'll bet she could tell you who the storyteller is and attest to the veracity of the story. The cow in my story is probably the same one you are citing, and you can't put it together.

Shame on you, again. Stop doing that. If you don't have something to add to the topic, shut up. Stop using it for your personal grudges.

Here is an excerpt from Patti's post on this board:

"All of the Dexters that I've heard of with notch ears go back to the dam (Gort
Sunbeam, ADCA No. 48C) of the "Notch-eared" Dexter cow Gort Sunbeam 5th, ADCA
No. 114. It is her "Original Import" Irish genetics that have embellished those
ears!

I have a photo of Gort Sunbeam 5th, ADCA No. 114, and it's very evident that she
has the notch ear trait."

[Deleted]

I'd love to see the photo of notched wars. I didn't know there was such a thing.

Cheers Donna

[carragheendexters]

Hi Donna,
have a look at the photo of the heifer that this thread was originally about. That is what notched/cropped ears look like. Yes, we do have that trait in Australia, it is an aesthetic trait, doesn't affect the animal in any way. As my husband says "You don't eat their ears"
regards Louise

[Deleted]

I was hoping for a closer pic Louise, cant really see much when you dont know what you are looking at

[littlecowfl]

Well, for those still wondering if the heifer is Dexter, check out the photo below. Someone around here bothered to collect from a bull with crop ears (must have had great traits otherwise). We still don't know what breed, but, let's face it, beef folks aren't that particular if the calves' weight gain and feed efficiency are good.

The bull in front is 14 months old, the heifer in question is behind him at 17 months old and the cow in the back is 27 months old.

[carragheendexters]

Donna, looking at her ears, see how they aren't rounded at the top, there is an indentation in the ear, similar to what the farmers over here in Australia do to ID their herd. Have you ever seen cattle that have been ID'd by notching, looks like that but unlike ID notching no definite shape or pattern. The notch can be as small as a little indentation in the ear right up to half the ear missing. The cattle often also have very small ears.
If you do a search on this forum there is a discussion about cropped ears that you can read. I don't know if there are any photos posted or not. Google Bairnsley Highlanders in Victoria and find the article on crop ears, I think they may have some photos of crop ears there. It is not uncommon in Australian Dexters, especially in those that have been bred from American AI bull lines.
regards Louise

[carragheendexters]

Hi Littlecowl, I still wouldn't be surprised if she was a Dexter. She looks around the same size as your others, at 17 months she has done a lot of her growing and she doesn't look particularly large. I currently have a Dexter (dam) cross angus (sire) long story too, won't go into it, not intentional. The resulting heifer calf is now 4 mths old, she was born a little larger than a pure Dexter maybe just like a large Dexter non chondro calf, and now she is already half way up her mothers side, she is as tall as a 9-12 mths Dexter. Huge! At birth, I never suspected her to be anything but pure Dexter, except she was polled and my bull isn't polled, the mother is by a polled bull but she is horned. We joked that she was a mutation. As she grew it quickly became obvious she wasn't full Dexter. Lovely heifer, the best of both breeds, but no mistaking she is a cross, very obvious.
regards Louise

[littlecowfl]

If she is, which Dexter bulls have cropped ears? It is not in any of my cows.

Her legs are so much thicker. She just doesn't look Dexter to me.

[littlecowfl]

Is there a genetic test for cropped ears in Dexters? I'd be happy to test my cow to show that it didn't come from her side. I'd hate to have anyone suspect my poor cow of such a thing.

Our vet agreed that the ears don't look like a homozygous type. They have much more missing and curled, apparently. It is an incomplete dominance trait so instead of all or none, the heterozygous calves have varying degrees of cropped ears.

Either way, I pulled some more tail hairs today and will be contacting UCD about testing her again. I sure would like to get a definitive Dexter/Dexter cross result. Her color test didn't do that, nor did her sire qualification (or lack thereof). I know even PHA can be in more than one breed. What would be a definitive Dexter/non-Dexter test? Anyone know?

[Deleted]

littlecowfl, UCD hopefully could help with something - maybe?

Maybe you could be the instigator for notched ear testing Cant hurt to ask that is for sure

I wonder if you did a PHA test for a Dexter would this help in determination? Or if the PHA test process for other breeds would help to answer this?
Or because she is a cross, this type of elimination process really wouldnt help at all in determining if she is a cross...............?

When you get an answer please let us know. I would love to know what they came up with

[ian]

Jul 18, 2013 15:44:02 GMT -5 @lindon said:

I'd love to see the photo of notched wars. I didn't know there was such a thing.

Cheers Donna

Hi Donna

Cropped/notched ear is present in the Australian Herd. I had a heifer calf born from an in calf heifer that I bought in Far Nth Qld that had both cropped ear and fused teats. I would not keep or breed from an animal with cropped ears.

I think both parents would have to carry the gene for it to be expressed?

Ian

[Deleted]

Is cropped ears popping up often here in Australia or is it one of those things that people send to the freezer pretty quickly?

Yes someone here mentioned that it may be recessive – or was it co dominant? Will have to check back.

LaDena posted a close up pic for me and I said without knowing about notched ears in the Dexters, I would have asked if there had been a bad fly year with possible infection to cause part of the ear/s to be missing like that.
But now I know about it so wont have to ask such a silly question

OOOOO I just found this on a yahoo posting:

Only three breeds carry the trait (notched ears); Dexters, Ayrshires, and Scottish Highlands. (All uncommon, antique breeds.)

Do others agree with this post? Reading more

[carragheendexters]

Hi Littlecowfl,
don't stress over it. I wouldn't have mentioned it if I thought you would worry about it too much. It was just an observation that I made, meaning I thought that with cropped ears she was a Dexter, as you had commented that her "funny" ears was from the Limo. If your cow did have cropped ears (not saying she has as you have already said she didn't ) nobody would think any the worse of your cow. An animal having cropped ears isn't the end of the world, it is an aesthetic trait, that's all, like having a little white on the udder. It has no affect what so ever on how a cow functions. Now we know your cow doesn't have cropped ears and isn't polled, so both of these traits had to come from the bull. You need to ask around your area who has a cropped ear poll bull, that is dun or carries dun, or go with Patti's suggestion of the bull.
I doubt that there would be a genetic test for cropped ears, too few animals in number affected to commercially warrant it. Maybe you should read the article on Bairnsley Highlanders website written from the study in Germany on Highlanders, that I suggested to Donna to read.
regards Louise