Kicking Dexter

[littlebits]

Hi. We are in our second week of having a milking Dexter Cow.  We bought her from a family with children who told us how gentle she was and we saw this when we went to their home.  Yet, she has shown some behavior that concerns me like tossing her horns at my husband or running around the pasture like she's wild.  We attributed this behavior to the terrible horseflies we have this summer (we're dusting her with diatomaceous earth for this and using an essential oil spray and fan during milking.)  We've been kind to her - she has access to minerals and salt, plenty of grass and hay and water.  However, yesterday she kicked at my husband as he was putting things near the stanchion for milking.  Today she nailed his leg.  At the time she was not in the stanchion and he was not doing anything to her.  How should we respond to her when she does this?  I am expecting a baby myself so I stay away until she's in the stanchion but I don't like her looking like she's challenging my husband.  He doesn't have any horns!  Any ideas or perspectives would be so appreciated.

[Olga]

Flies could be a big thing, true. But I think the main thing is for this cow to get used to her new home and her new people. It takes time for an animal to trust you. Imagine this was a dog - some dogs take a while to accept new masters, not all are happy go lucky. Whatever you do, I wouldn't retaliate by kicking. I've made this mistake once and it made the problem worse. My original thought was, well, if she kicked me, I can kick back at her. Have I ever regretted that!
The best all-around solution is to follow a strict routine at milking time, same equipment, same people, same stool, and use a belly rope to prevent her from kicking. As time goes on and when you feel confident that she trusts you were her life and udder - try going back to no-rope.

[kansasdexters]

I agree with Olga. Cows take some time to get to know their new environment and family and routine. It helps if your husband (or you) behave in a confident manner around her. You control the routine, the environment, and how/when she is fed. Do it reliably, do it with confidence, spend time around her -- grooming her, haltering and tying her, leading her to feed, cleaning her paddock (every day). You are proving yourselves to her and getting to know her. She will respond more positively to you, when she knows that you are a good leader and she knows what to expect from you. If you are fearful or tentative, she will sense that; and if she is an intelligent cow, she will challenge you to find out where your boundaries are. So you have to firmly and consistently let her know that you are the leader, and that you set the boundaries, and that you mean what you say.

You won't get kicked if you maintain enough space between you and the cow. Carry an "authority" stick, and if she invades your space, remind her what your comfort zone boundary is, with a firm tap. Cows do this with each other, as they establish the hierarchy in the herd. She should not crowd you, push you, or shake her head at you. When she respects you, those behaviors will stop.

Patti

[kozzy]

Sept 19, 2013 21:25:35 GMT -5 kansasdexters said:

Carry an "authority" stick, and if she invades your space, remind her what your comfort zone boundary is, with a firm tap. Cows do this with each other, as they establish the hierarchy in the herd. She should not crowd you, push you, or shake her head at you. When she respects you, those behaviors will stop.

Patti

I can attest to the huge difference proper training with an "authority stick" can make. I found that a "firm tap" wasn't really effective, though--what worked best for me was more of a slow push with the stick, usually against the forward part of the shoulder. At first I tried taps, attempting to find the right level but it always seemed to be a bit of a game with her rather than an authority measure. When I switched to making it more like being pushed authoritatively away with a horn, she responded much more like she understood and now definitely respects my space and authority much better.

A cheap and effective stick can be had at most home centers in the form of one of those fiberglass driveway reflector marking stakes. Mine is white, about 1/4" diameter with a reflector at the top and about 4 feet long (pretty stiff) but I can't seem to find a good web image for reference. 5 bucks, better behaved cow. Heck of a deal.

[Gorignak]

The front shoulder is the best place....we have used a quick punch to negate a blossoming aggression. BUT....we have found, through the magic of Google, the "best" authority stick. I hate hitting ANYTHING with a narrow fiberglass rod. If I come at someone with a narrow rod, I mean to do severe damage. HOWEVER, a 48" piece of 3/4" sch 40 white PVC pipe is the tool to teach a lesson, without doing damage. It is LOUD....every time it makes contact, there is a "thunk". and it is much gentler than a rod. The white is visible across the field, or close by......WE DO NOT JUST USE IT FOR "PUNISHMENT"....IT IS "US"....AN INTEGRAL PART OF OUR PRESENCE. Everybody in the family has one, and it is always with them when they are with livestock.You can go on all you want about a 700 lb milk cow.....get in a field with a couple of 700 lb sows !!!!

You can hit with it....and push hard with the end....AND....with a little practice, you can blow two distinct tones on it that carry for a long way. We use the deep tone as the authority notice. I have one non chondro cow that likes to wait around a corner and ambush the yearling bull calf, or the smaller chondro positive heifers and cows. We have learned to warn her from across the barn to come out from hiding and get the H_LL out of there so everyone else can pass through the door. After about two blasts on the "trumpet",she peeks around the corner, and knows we are on to her.
The higher tone, from pursing your lips tighter....is the assembly "treat" call. It brings them running from the far reaches of the pastures. I don't play a wind instrument.....and it has taken me about a month to master the "pipe" enough to get very good volume and recognizably distinct tones.

We started 14 months ago....and are milking 2 now, with two additional bred and getting prepped for milking in February. One is Dorothy..."The assasin"....she could kick the hat off your head......I can lay on her back and scratch her anywhere now. Go to some of the other forums.....the creatures that have the most to learn are you and your husband. We accommodate our cow's psyche 90%....don't get angry. All we ask is 10% .....the most important 10%.......into the stanchion.....trust me so I can trust you......I AM NEVER A THREAT......
Olga said it perfect....THEY HAVE TO GET USED TO YOU AND THEIR NEW SETUP.... Make it as easy as possible.....and DON'T create an irreparable rift between you and the cow. IT IS WORK...the rewards are well worth it.

[Gorignak]

I just reread your post and realize that you may need a quick boost....you really walked into a tough situation. I can't imagine one of our milkers liking anyone else milking them other than my daughters. So, you got one already milking.....it will be tougher than having a warm up of a few months.

If you want....go to my profile and email me, or post on our facebook page. My daughters will give you a crash course in acclimation. If you need, I will send you our phone number. I guarantee that they have 30 minutes of tips that will make your life easier....I AM ASSUMING THAT YOU HAVE NOT MILKED EXTENSIVELY BEFORE. Neither did we. Just goats for us, years ago.

[kozzy]

Sept 20, 2013 16:34:34 GMT -5 Gorignak said:

. I hate hitting ANYTHING with a narrow fiberglass rod. If I come at someone with a narrow rod, I mean to do severe damage. .

There may be confusion here. FIrst, the rod is not narrow, it's quite large and blunt. It's not as big as the pipe you mention but it's neither sharply pointed nor narrow enough to be a prison shiv. However, I spoke nowhere about hitting or any kind of aggressive high-pressure shoving or "poke". What works is a slow and steady push of minimum pressure--something akin to what would make a human move on their own accord without causing injury. The notion is that the cow decides to move because they instinctually know what that kind of pressure means in herd behavior, not do battle with the critter nor "punish". You don't need to be a bully to be the authority if you use a cow's instinctive understandings to your benefit.

[Gorignak]

In my experience, a shiv is a spoon handle, piece of banding or bed spring that is sharpened to an edge or point on the concrete floor of ones cell. I believe you are probably referring to a baton. I dislike any implement of that diameter around livestock. The 3/4 inch PVC pipe affords no actual protection...it is merely a display of the holders "Alpha" position in the herd.

All our cattle....7 now .... are horned. Our 7 year old cow is VERY well endowed. I am amazed at the incredible precision that they can poke, lift and crush with their horns. AND, after a year....I am ever so grateful to see our cattle turn their heads to the side to avoid hitting us with their horns when we are interacting. All my cattle will be horned. SO, it is necessary to look beyond the current placid, pastoral scene, to a sudden situation that might require forceful action.

The PVC pipe delivers all that is needed, with none of the drawbacks of a narrower tool. Learn to trumpet on it....ours are very controllable with that sound. Hans carries a little safety screamer....no need if you have the "pipe". The "THUNK" of the pipe on a butt or shoulder is plenty to divert or alter the cow's intent to misbehave...AND....when you turn the pipe sideways in front of you...IT BECOMES A SET OF HORNS... and they are the biggest horns in the barnyard. I was/am astounded at the instant attention that is afforded a 36"-48" horizontal piece of white plastic..

We do not, nor do we intend to use force as a tool....we understand livestock psychology fairly well. BUT, the capability MUST be there. The pipe is the best livestock handling tool we have seen. It does not alienate you from the cow after use, as a more painful tool might. We always have one with us. Our cattle now respect it and determine most of their interaction with us by its presentation or location.

[Gorignak]

An afterthought.... we have been waiting for a heifer to have her first heat, and it looks like it is on schedule....This morning she had a scrape on her inner thigh, and our bull was very attentive. So, on the mornings inspection, he was pushing me aside, and positioning himself between us and the heifer. He then lowered his head and began to threaten......

Out with the pipe......instantly crossways in front of him and he got his "brain" back....."OH, I remember you." He immediately dropped his aggressive stance and forced a compromise....I had to stand there for 10 minutes scratching every inch of him with the end of the pipe...and he likes it used really hard. I got tired of my hand getting blackened with lanolin and dirt, and started with the pipe a few months ago. He loves it. We parted friends.

Yes, I know I should wait a heat or two to breed her, but the heifer happens to be an 800 lb Guernsey.She is our comic relief....her back legs are already taller than even my "long" cow. I don't have the facilities right now to delay things. Plus, I'm going to have to go get OZ a ladder. Though, the vet said...."Oh, she'll find a low place, they won't have a problem".

[lavacaw]

Mike,
I got a good laugh at the visual image of Oz on a ladder!

[littlebits]

I can't tell you how much I appreciate all of you taking the time to help us by addressing this problem. We'll get right on the PVC pipe idea and I'll let you know how it goes. One question about milking. We bought her on a once a day schedule and she's been very patient to let us milk her thoroughly without kicking in the stanchion. Yet, yesterday I noticed a small bump on one of her teats. She didn't seem like it was painful. Could it be a bug bite or the beginning of an infection? What do you do about those horrid horseflies that continually plague?

[Gorignak]

!!!!!! MONITOR THAT LUMP. Is it internal or "external" like a bite
At a minimum, get a CMT kit from Hamby Dairy Supply. YOU DON'T want to deal with Mastitis.
More experienced folks here than me, but I personally hate the once a day...it teaches their body to cut back production.
Test with the CMT (cheap) at least 2X week. hambydairysupply.com/xcart/
THERE ARE 2 MASTITIS VACCINES....ONE FOR STAPH AND ONE FOR E-COLI .....Anybody know the pros and cons of using it should comment.
STRIP...STRIP....STRIP....NO not you, the udder.....special care to get it all out...then punch a little and wait a bit and get the rest. We wash before and after each milking....use UDDER BUTTER or similar. USE ELECTRIC CLIPPERS to remove all hair from near the teats. We clip the entire lower udder so that manure and dirt don't cling.

Prepare for the worst....have mastitis supplies ready, and learn what to look for. Mastitis doesn't care that you have to go to work...it can be devastating, and Tractor Supply is kinda wimpy with supplies. It has to be handled promptly.

Get on the web and review the symptoms and horror stories...so you are ready. Have a phone number of an experienced helpful friend ready. Meet and talk to your vet....
The once-a-day milking is more prone to mastitis. Traps for the big flies cost a fortune, they are not easily attracted. Our stanchion (look in the milk threads) is a full body....SO WE JUST CRUSH (DON'T SWAT, scares Bossie) THEM WHEN THEY LAND. I've been 20 feet up a ladder on a September morning and had them harassing me....they can bite through boot leather, I think.

We have avoided mastitis. We milk 2 cows 2X / day.....but I just sent off another $300. to Jeffers www.jefferspet.com/jeffers-livestock/camid/LIV/ca/135/sc/liv/   (or Valley Vet Supply) for more "in case" supplies. When the "ship hits the van"....you need to be ready, not learning. Vaccines...antibiotics....probiotics....bandages....syringes.....sprays and ointments..... all need to be understood....OR have a good vet's home number.  It is $95 for the vet to come to the farm and $35 to go to him around here......plus treatment.

Lot's of "milkmaids" here can help..... we have avoided the worst, so far.

[kansasdexters]

littlebits,

We don't have a horsefly problem anymore. We have used the following trap to drastically reduce the horsefly population on our ranch: www.bitingflies.com/

We have one of these traps in every single pasture area and in the trap is where most of the horseflies end up. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of them. We can monitor how well we are doing controlling these biting flies by examining what's in the trap and what's not on our cows. These traps are worth every penny they cost for the improvement in quality of life and "cow comfort" achieved on our ranch. These traps are made in the USA and you can get spare parts and replacement parts when you need them. These traps are reusable, year and after year. They really work, and you will see results as soon as you put them out. We currently have five of these traps working to control horseflies on a total of approximately 60 acres of pasture. We store these traps in the barn during the winter and put them out in June every year, before any horseflies have emerged.

These traps will tell you when horsefly hatching events occur, they will tell you when the horsefly population is impacted and reduced. Every farm should have these, in my opinion. They are easy to maintain and they really do the job.

Patti