Which lab--and why?

[zephyrhillsusan]

I started out registering my animals with TAMU because that's what was on the ADCA website at the time.  

Recently, a breeder I respect told me of incorrect results they had heard of from TAMU and said I should check my girls' A2 status with UCD before I decided who to sell.  I did, and the results came back the same as TAMU's.

When the ADCA allowed us to switch labs, given this breeder's input, I briefly considered switching to UCD.  But a huge problem arose.  I couldn't just put in a sire's name to get my cows "sire qualified"--I had to know his number at UCD.  How would I get that?  Write to the three breeders of the AI bulls and live cover bull I had used?  Rather than go to that trouble, I decided that since TAMU had given me correct A2 results, I would stick with them.

Now I have just heard from another breeder I respect who is switching to UCD and whose results from UCD don't match TAMU's on the genotype for one marker.  They are inclined to trust UCD and stick with them, but it means testing all their other animals over again.  If they just transferred results from TAMU to UCD, the heifers who have been tested only at TAMU won't match the sire who has been tested at both UCD and TAMU--because UCD has a different number on one marker than TAMU does.  (I hope I explained that well enough.)

So now I'm wondering . . . which lab is more accurate?  I realize this is a "straw poll" and not scientific, but I would love to hear what those of you with more animals and more experience advise newbies like me.  Is it worth going to the trouble of asking three breeders for their bulls' numbers at UCD (assuming they are even on file) so that I can "sire qualify" my girls?  Is it worth going to the extra trouble and cost of pulling tail hairs and sending them in for testing on my two girls who've been done at TAMU?  Or should I just try to transfer them to UCD and see if that works? 

And what about the bull calf we're buying, assuming the seller is open to testing at either lab.  In your opinion, which lab is best to use--and why?

(Oh, I do hope I'm not stirring up a hornet's nest!  I'm just a newbie who's confused and looking for guidance--not trying to start WWIII.)

[lakeportfarms]

We've switched entirely to UCD, including transferring any genotypes  from Texas to ease the sire qualification procedure.  Some of the genotypes from our more common bulls have been retested at UCD.  UCD has now made it even easier and less expensive to transfer genotypes.  If you have a copy of the genotype from Texas you can manually enter in the numbers, scan the Texas genotype and e mail it to UCDavis and it will be available to use to in sire/dam qualification.  It costs $2.00.  There are some disclaimers that go along with it since another lab has done the testing, but it is accepted nonetheless.  It works great when you may have purchased a bull or cow, and the owner has furnished a copy of the genotype of the sire.

I can't speak for the accuracy of the two labs, we haven't compared results between them.

For larger breeders such as us, the UCDavis system for testing, reporting, and keeping track of the results is much better.  With an account in the MyVGL website, you can instantly look up the test results for any of your tested animals, even out in the pasture with a customer.  If you are a smaller breeder, I'm a firm believer in competition so by all means use Texas if you have a number of results with them already and don't want to go to the time and trouble to transfer or re-test so they can stick around for Dexter owners.

[legendrockranch]

Mike, I have done basically what you have done. It has taken months for all of my animals to be transferred over. I just received the last four last week.
However I am running into yet another snag. My bull was re-genotyped, all the cows were transferred over, UCD calls them "foreign" genotypes.
When trying to parentage verify a calf from the "foreign" cow and listing her UCD case number, upon printing out the submission for the new calf all that is listed on the form itself is her dams case number.

So the dams name and registration number does not show up on the parent information section, or anywhere on the form for that matter.
What shows up on the form when you try to register a calf from these foreign transfers?

Added: I would like to add that all of the dams information was typed in by me before the form was submitted and printed out.

Barb

[wvdexters]

I like Legacy/UCD. Simple procedure and they offer Obligate Reports for $2.00. Big cost savings and I like having the paper report in hand to show potential buyers.

[zephyrhillsusan]

Thank you all for your input. After reading what you're running into Barb (and reading about the backlog of transfers from the other thread), I think it would behoove me to simply retest everyone since I only have three animals. I'm going to do our new cow with UCD, anyway, to help her former owner out, so that only leaves me two more to do. The snag will be if I can find out from the bulls' owners IF they are on UCD and what their numbers are.

I'll wait on some more answers to see if there's any different advice coming in . . .

[zephyrhillsusan]

You guys have convinced me--I'm heading over to Legacy!

[cddexter]

Susan, speaking of hornet's nests...

Please keep in mind that anything tested through Judy's database goes to you through Judy. If you don't mind another private Dexter breeder collecting your info, you can save money. Almost as cheap is to deal directly with UCD and have guaranteed control of your data.

You might want to take a longer look into things. cheers, c.

[sharethelegacy]

Legacy would like to take this opportunity to thank all those who have supported Legacy and the remarkable success of the various Legacy efforts.

Did you know;1. A Legacy founder established the FIRST Dexter cattle genotype database and registry in the Western hemisphere? One of only two registries to require a genotype for registry in the world.

2. Legacy was the only Dexter group in the world outside of Europe to participate in the Cardiff research project on Dexter cattle.

3. Legacy negotiated with the A2 Corporation with the permission of UCD to bring A2 testing to individual cattle owners and breeders in North America setting up the first licensed testing at UCD-VGL.

4. Legacy was the FIRST to provide genetic testing for all available tests at one laboratory and for prices LESS than half what breeders had previously been required to pay.

5. Legacy was the only Dexter group promoting and insisting on ownership and privacy rights for genetic testing results. ADCA, by contrast and by contract, ceded all rights to ADCA member samples and results to Texas Agrilife and to the Cothran lab for indiscriminate research of any type.

6. Legacy began the FIRST awareness campaign of the value of genotyping a herd by providing the "purple pedigree" which denotes in the Legacy online registry in bold purple font all animals genotyped in a pedigree. As more and more genotyped Dexters with photos become available, owners, potential buyers, and researchers will be able to discern phenotype and some recessive characteristics through bloodlines. Just another FIRST which can be attributed to Legacy.

7. Legacy implemented the FIRST obligate report for owners. When both parents are tested as non-carriers of either chondrodysplasia or PHA, or carriers of A2/A2 ( or A1/A1 ) a certificate is available detailing the documentation of the obligate status for a small fee.

8. A Legacy founder devised the idea and worked with UCD to implement the current testing program at UCD so owners were able to test direct with Legacy affiliation for the group pricing on tests, doing so with the knowledge it would be detrimental to the Legacy testing service volume but beneficial to owners.

9. Legacy charges no membership and no initial registration fee. All Dexters must be genotyped and have a documented pedigree of registered ancestors.

10. The mission of Legacy began with an effort to raise the awareness of outcrossed genetics in the American herd where upgrading is not permitted, ( when this situation was being denied by leadership of established associations and others). The resounding success of this effort, though years too late, has now been published in the most recent ADCA Bulletin. Legacy is disappointed in the spin and the inaccuracy of the information but it is a start and will have benefit for the preservation effort. Along with the initial effort at preservation Legacy focused on working not only for the breed but for the owners. That too has been a resounding success.

11. Legacy welcomes all Dexter owners. If you would like to add your Dexters to the "purple pedigree" effort, along with test results to qualify for obligate reports, you are most welcome.

Last, but certainly not least, those in the Dexter breed cannot help but note . . . . . . . . There is NO record of a single complaint regarding Legacy testing or registration services nor any breech of ethics regarding privacy and ownership rights by anyone who has used Legacy services. All negative comments regarding Legacy stem from those who seemingly have politcal agendas or personal axes to grind, but no actual knowledge or experience.

The success and accomplishments of Legacy mirror the commitment to excellence of the founders and supporters of which Legacy is always aware, appreciative, and most grateful.

Legacy has strived, with committed focus, to WOW you!

You are welcome to come on over and . . . . . SHARE THE LEGACY!




LegacyDexterCattleRegistry.com
DexterCattleAmericanLegacy.info

[sharethelegacy]

Susan,

Legacy is confident, based on knowledge and experience in suggesting to you that the problem with the genotype is NOT due to the UCD report. UCD reports to the ISAG standard for the ISAG markers. I imagine your result difference was in the locus SPS 115, ( perhaps another ISAG marker but this is the most common one with differences). This is a marker that the Cothran lab in Texas has acknowledge is "rounded-off".
UCD will not round-off. This practice has created numerous issues of non-confirmed on transferred genotypes. Cothran lab is not the only lab to acknowledge "rounding-off".

I believe there is an owner who posts on this board who experienced this issue and can confirm for you.
Here is an example. In the locus SPS115 Dexters can have both a 260 or 261 type. It is Legacy's understanding that if a test result is not absolutely clear as to the reading of 260 or 261 UCD will rerun a test until they are assured of the accuracy of the result.

Other labs in similar cases may do what is known as "rounding off". if the result falls short of being clearly defined as one or the other, the lab will "round if off". I think usually they round down.

If you can afford the additional testing it might be in your interests to go ahead and re-test your bulls with UCD. Your sample will be archived for future use, and UCD reports on 16 markers, more than any other testing lab being used by Dexter owners. In the future, when it is believed many labs will switch to new DNA technology for testsing, ( SNPS) you will have a record in place. . and if there should be additional tests that are needed in the breed you will have sample available.

[ssrdex]

Legacy is great and has been/will be my starting point for genotyping our herd. Service is great and Judy has helped me through my own screw-ups seamlessly. Just such an easy process to do online as well.