zephyrhillsusan
member
Caught Dexteritis in Dec. 2009. Member of this forum since Oct. 2013.
Posts: 1,502
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Post by zephyrhillsusan on Dec 28, 2013 16:58:54 GMT -5
Thanks, Carol, I copied your response into a document where I'm assembling notes for culling. That's the clearest, most complete discussion I've seen on the subject. Thank you!
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Post by ian on Dec 29, 2013 16:33:40 GMT -5
Can someone who knows more about it than me please explain about a backward curve to the scrotum in relation to udders? That was very interesting to me when I read it. One other important point when looking at a bulls scrotum is the teat placement. Always check for extra teats any more than four and he is a cull. Teats should be evenly placed and foward of the scrotum if the rear teats are attached to the top front of the scrotum or very close he should also be culled.
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Post by cddexter on Dec 29, 2013 23:33:56 GMT -5
Actually, you also need to look at the size and shape and evenness of the testes, ditto the epididymous, as well as not just placement but size and shape and spacing of the teats. cheers, c.
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Post by djdewetsa on Dec 30, 2013 6:39:22 GMT -5
Sorry Ian for going of the topic. Cheers
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Post by djdewetsa on Dec 30, 2013 6:43:38 GMT -5
No one in SA check the bull "teat" placements. Didnt thought about it - had a bull with teats near the scrotum but didnt have problems with teat placements on the heifers. However I think its best practise to do the right way so will definitely use this info and forward it to other commercial farmers that thought we knew it all:)
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Post by djdewetsa on Dec 30, 2013 7:02:01 GMT -5
Do other countries do performance testing of bulls like growth and milk? or just how they look?
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Post by cddexter on Dec 30, 2013 8:24:11 GMT -5
Danie, here in North America we have a lot of Dexter people who think cute is the primary selection criteria. Hard to get even classification done much less performance testing. Do you have any info on how Riverhill Saturn's Galaxy offspring made out? Or Riverhill Dusk Enchanter? cheers, c.
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zephyrhillsusan
member
Caught Dexteritis in Dec. 2009. Member of this forum since Oct. 2013.
Posts: 1,502
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Post by zephyrhillsusan on Dec 30, 2013 15:18:58 GMT -5
Ian, I'm sorry, but I'm either unfamiliar with some terminology or having some other problem figuring this out. (Or just plain dense!) I get that teats should be evenly placed. "Forward of the scrotum" I assume to mean on the front side of the scrotum? "If the rear teats are attached to the top front of the scrotum" is where I'm really confused. If they are in the rear, how can they be on the front of the scrotum? Sorry, you may need to draw me a picture! I've never actually seen supernumerary teats, which is probably part of the problem! Anyway, I figured the only dumb question is one you don't ask, so I'm asking! But thank you for adding this element to checking the bull's scrotum. Also, thank you, Sheri, for adding in scrotal circumference. Do you have a general idea to share of what you might hope to see there? What's too small? I assume there is no "too big?"!! There is a LOT to learn in all of this! It's all going in my file on culling!
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Post by ian on Dec 30, 2013 17:03:35 GMT -5
Ian, I'm sorry, but I'm either unfamiliar with some terminology or having some other problem figuring this out. (Or just plain dense!) I get that teats should be evenly placed. "Forward of the scrotum" I assume to mean on the front side of the scrotum? "If the rear teats are attached to the top front of the scrotum" is where I'm really confused. If they are in the rear, how can they be on the front of the scrotum? Sorry, you may need to draw me a picture! I've never actually seen supernumerary teats, which is probably part of the problem! Anyway, I figured the only dumb question is one you don't ask, so I'm asking! But thank you for adding this element to checking the bull's scrotum. Also, thank you, Sheri, for adding in scrotal circumference. Do you have a general idea to share of what you might hope to see there? What's too small? I assume there is no "too big?"!! There is a LOT to learn in all of this! It's all going in my file on culling! Hi Susan The teats on a bull are always to front of the scrotum and separate. there should be no teats attached to scrotum. If they are attached to the scrotum they will be at front top of the scrotum. This can be checked for as soon as the calf is born and easy to handle.
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Post by wagradexters on Dec 30, 2013 19:00:53 GMT -5
Oldies in our family had many quaint expressions. One of them was "...as uselesss at teats on a bull" Teats on a bull are being given a lot more attention than they once were, fortunately. I have twice seen bulls with teats pointing horizontally forward from the top of the scrotum. Margaret
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zephyrhillsusan
member
Caught Dexteritis in Dec. 2009. Member of this forum since Oct. 2013.
Posts: 1,502
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Post by zephyrhillsusan on Dec 30, 2013 19:37:36 GMT -5
Got it! Thanks, Ian!
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Post by djdewetsa on Dec 31, 2013 4:05:39 GMT -5
Hi C No , do not know those 2 bulls. Think they must have imported it without the permissions and used it but never registered the animals. Maybe Johan Nel worked with this Chris fellow and used the semen.
Will ask around. I was the first again to send a bull to the test centre. My first bull had a fcr of 5,4 which is incredible - luckily I still breed with his father - the big bull on my website) Have a polled 100% sister of that bull. However she gives me heifers and not a bull that im looking for:) Visited a breeder yesterday - Daffue or stud is Zandu - one of the older herds in SA and a breeder that milks (only one that milks purebreds and do know how much milk the dexter do give here in SA - the others are using hear say) and told him if he do performance testing then I can buy bulls from him. Hopefully he will bite as he has very good cows. I ordered 6 heifers from him when he have , hopefully:) Its much easier to buy a bull with test results. The only other 2 that do testing is Hendrik Strydom (amadeus - on the forum) and Johan Nel. Both have also big herds +100 animals. So the figures they have make sense and can be used as it is not 5 or 10 animals. Performance testing is there to improve the breed - that is the only way for survival otherwise no one will farm with them if they dont know what this Dexters can do.
Cheers Danie
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Post by stephanie on Jan 8, 2014 7:27:38 GMT -5
For me the most important thing is legs and feet ....without decent legs and feet to pass on the rest does not interest me.
After that comes top line and all other conformation, along with temperament, good udder and ability to milk....which brings me to my main point...
If at all possible look at as many close female relatives of a potential bull as you can because, after all it is a herd of females you are trying to breed, not a herd of bulls and in my opinion what his Dam, sisters and if possible daughters look like, is more important than how beautiful he is himself.
Stephanie
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Post by hollydzie on Jan 8, 2014 8:57:48 GMT -5
Stephanie, I would agree that first would be sound in feet and legs, for me second would be the udder of his mother and other related females. Temperament is high on the list as well. I knew of some one who found a lovely bull, bought him and used him(not knowing what his dam's udder was like). Only to find out later that the udders he threw were very bad. Seeing the dam is a must for me, so that you can see her udder. I think I have bad udder phobia. LOL
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Post by cddexter on Jan 8, 2014 10:04:11 GMT -5
Danie, when I was in SA, I stayed with Manie Oberholtzer in Joburg, Piet Wilke in Bloemfontein, and Chris (can't remember his name but he bred red and was doing embroys) in Pietermaritzburg. All three drove me around to various breeders in their area, so I saw lots of cattle. Some really nice. There was a drought in effect, and some of the animals up on the edge of the Kalahari were in pretty bad shape. Wish I could remember the names of all the people we visited. Thanks for your input here. I don't know who imported the semen, just that it did go to SA. Cheers c.
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