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Post by lakeportfarms on Dec 28, 2013 9:12:44 GMT -5
Tail hairs have been pulled but how about some opinions? We can't wait! This is the bull we traveled to PA last week to pick up. I think he is a carrier, but I have a bit of an advantage that I can compare him in person to some of our other bulls around the same age (about 1 year old), both long and short. If he is a carrier, he is certainly a less "severe" carrier than the ones that Mike has been producing for all these years, but he's not out of the range of other carriers I've seen out of different bulls/cows. We're quite happy with his temperament, he seems to be a very relaxed boy and we can get within a couple of feet of him in an open area, even though nobody has been working with him at all. A little time handling him and he should be fine.
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Post by hollydzie on Dec 28, 2013 11:27:27 GMT -5
His head size and neck length or lack of make me think carrier. He is cute
Holly
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Post by wvdexters on Dec 28, 2013 18:01:14 GMT -5
Very handsome fellow you have there. I read carrier. (I think)
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zephyrhillsusan
member
Caught Dexteritis in Dec. 2009. Member of this forum since Oct. 2013.
Posts: 1,502
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Post by zephyrhillsusan on Dec 28, 2013 21:31:31 GMT -5
Not an expert, but I'd guess carrier, too, based on his head and neck. He reminds me SO much of Tumnus the Faun in "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" movie! Really cute!
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Post by lakeportfarms on Dec 28, 2013 22:57:57 GMT -5
Thanks everyone...we're hoping he's a carrier, and it was the head and neck that Sheril and I were focused on also. His mother (Barlow Bubbles) is a beautiful cow. We didn't see the sire, he had already gone to the freezer. After a little while in quarantine we're looking forward for him to grow a bit, we have some select cows we're looking forward to having him breed.
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Post by djdewetsa on Dec 29, 2013 0:49:37 GMT -5
Hi. I dont understand - I quote "Thanks everyone...we're hoping he's a carrier" - this cant be true?
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Post by lakeportfarms on Dec 29, 2013 7:03:27 GMT -5
We are specificaly looking for a carrier to increase our numbers of carrier cows through their replacement heifers, and by using a nice carrier bull over non carrier cows this is the most efficient and least expensive way to do it. Eventually our non-carrier cows will be replaced with their carrier offspring, and we will then use a non-carrier bull on them to avoid any bulldog calves.
Like the photo in the other thread that you commented on describes, we like the efficiency of the carrier cows vs. the non-carriers, as they are capable of raising a much larger steer while the inputs to the carrier cow are lower. Don't forget, there are four sides of the equation when raising beef. Inputs to the dam, output of the dam, input to the steer, output of the steer. You may be working on the steer side of the equation only. We are working on the dam side of the equation with our selection of chondro carrier cows, and the differences are observable without even doing any measurements, they are that clear to us. We do not have the availability of range land to turn our momma cows on, what we have available is limited and we have to purchase at great expense because we are competing with the crop farmers of soybean and corn (maize). They have deeper pockets. Therefore we use intensive managed grazing during our short grazing season with daily moves. We usually have significant snow on the ground from November to early April.
In the event that the carrier cows produce a carrier bull or steer they can typically be finished sooner than the non-carriers. Since we have a nice customer base of private buyers we have no trouble selling the beef without having to take them to the market to try and compete with the large producers of Angus, etc... Many of our buyers are not looking for high hanging weights, but prefer the slightly smaller size that the chondro steer produces. However you still get a very nice quality finished carcass on grass only. We prefer not to sell 1/2 or 1/4 of the steer since the logistics of getting two or four people together at the same time to take their respective portions are difficult, and our customers prefer to buy the whole steer so they are confident that they are getting 100% of what they purchased.
Perhaps your market is different in SA (I know your weather climate is), or perhaps you're missing out on an entirely different segment in the market that is not currently being served. You'll have to determine that based on your local information.
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Post by hollydzie on Dec 29, 2013 9:21:04 GMT -5
djdewetsa ~ you will find many people here who dearly love their carriers. Just an FYI for you. Don't be surprised to find people who are happy to have them. I personally do not own any carriers, they are not the thing for me. We did own one carrier steer when we got our first Dexters. I was not educated on the difference at the time. He was a great pet, but not something I would want to see in my breeding herd. We gave him away as pet. BTW it is nice to have someone from SA on the board to give their input WELCOME.
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Post by djdewetsa on Dec 30, 2013 0:47:17 GMT -5
What is the weaning weight of carrier bulls at 6 to 7 months in the US and what is the weaning weight of Non carrier bulls at 6 to 7 months in the US? Still the non carrier cows do wean calves of +50 to 55% of their body weight What is the percentage of weaning weight of a carrier cow with her carrier bull calf?
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Post by lakeportfarms on Dec 30, 2013 8:39:07 GMT -5
Patti Adams would be the person that could best respond to your question.
We know the hanging weights on all the steers but have only investigated the other information sporadically. Although we run it like a business as much as possible, it's not my wife's or my primary occupation. We presently have 69 Dexters of varying ages and we also run a herd of 27 Scottish Highlands. Quite a substantial second job for us both, so our time is limited as it is. I can tell you that our steers are not weaned at 6-7 months though, we expect the mother to take them all the way to 11 months. But we also don't pull off the steers and send them to a finishing lot either. We finish and sell them ourselves without grain.
A non-carrier steer we just processed at 460 lbs. hanging weight was weaned by his mother at 11 months, and at the time he was weaned he was taller than she, and probably weaned near 100% (she tapes at 620 lbs.) She calved a month after that, her bull calf was weaned and sold as a herd sire at 6 months, and she just calved this past Christmas day with a beefy little carrier boy. I fully expect her to be bred back within a couple of months and wean this boy (who will likely be steered) at 11 months. I don't know of any other breed that can take a slightly over 600 lb. cow and produce those kinds of outputs consistently without grain of any kind.
This is why the mother's performance is so important to us. Assuming processing at 2 years of age, nearly 2/3 of the steer's full lifespan (including as a fetus) are handled largely by the mother, who is also simultaneously raising herself and her other calf or the fetus. True, as the steer grows he's grazing, but as the steer grows the mother is getting closer to calving again. And our experience has been that the chondro cows are more efficient at maintaining their condition than the non-carriers.
Simply put, the very gene that dwarfs their size, when that gene is missing in their offspring 50% of the time, creates the possibility that they can outproduce themselves by a significant degree. And since carrier cows are fairly rare and sought after, at least in our neck of the woods, the only way to economically increase your herd of them is to use a bull on non-carrier cows to produce them.
Thanks Sheri for your comments. You're going to love your little bull! Like Gene loves Brenn, we also love our chondro bull (s), and will always have one around to look after the non-carrier cows we have or the exceptional ones we'll keep, only our percentage of them will be much lower in time. Once you work out the separate pastures for them it's really the best of both worlds! We had a visitor yesterday, and when we showed him our 2 year old dun carrier bull that didn't even come up to his waist, you should have seen him smile, he couldn't believe it.
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Post by carragheendexters on Dec 31, 2013 6:48:09 GMT -5
Ok, here is a hypothetical question for those with chondro carriers. I have chondro carrier cows and have already decided my answer but don't want to influence anyone else's answers.
If you could breed animals that looked like chondro carriers, short legs etc, with the same traits as chondro carriers that make them so popular, such as feed efficiency (as has been discussed previously ) small size, etc, BUT without the chondro gene, would you go up that path in breeding instead of keeping chondro positive carriers. If you chose not to, why not?
I look forward to people's answers.
regards Louise
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Post by truth on Dec 31, 2013 7:41:21 GMT -5
If you could breed animals that looked like chondro carriers, short legs etc, with the same traits as chondro carriers that make them so popular, such as feed efficiency (as has been discussed previously ) small size, etc, BUT without the chondro gene, would you go up that path in breeding instead of keeping chondro positive carriers. If you chose not to, why not?
I look forward to people's answers.
regards Louise
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Post by lakeportfarms on Dec 31, 2013 9:30:54 GMT -5
Ha! That's a provocative question isn't it? First, I guess my response would be that you are talking about a different breed of cow now. The only question is which of the two choices would inherit the "Dexter" name and which would receive an entirely new name.
For me the answer is probably no. I like the differences, and with the advent of genetic testing for the gene to make intelligent choices as to how we breed it's not rocket science or a guessing game any longer. We're pulling tail hairs anyway for other tests or genotype, and it's not that difficult to run the chondro girls in their own area with a bull. I like how a chondro cow can outproduce herself periodically if the desire is for a larger animal whether it is a steer, bull, or cow. And as RedRidge said a good animal is a good animal.
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Post by truth on Dec 31, 2013 11:08:11 GMT -5
Some good points made here. My answer would be no it would spoil all the fun. I do think people should give genetic status of bulls offered for breeding.
Mike
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Post by truth on Dec 31, 2013 12:03:51 GMT -5
I would love to see pictures of Brenn and Armstrong please .
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