|
|
Post by lakeportfarms on Jan 27, 2014 16:10:33 GMT -5
This fall we used a pour on Cydectin brand for our worming. Despite this we have more than a few cows that have developed mange. We've never had this issue before with the Ivermectin pour on applied in the fall. Anybody else having or had an issue with Cydectin and mange?
|
|
|
|
Post by legendrockranch on Jan 27, 2014 23:16:38 GMT -5
Hi Hans,
Sorry you're having this problem. We use Cydectin pour on but only in the spring. It does have some benefits but I don't think it strong enough to do all that we expect it to do. That's why we use an internal parasite control for fall. A lot of vets don't like using pour ons for this reason. I realize this doesn't answer your question.
Did you treat all of your animals at the same time? If not that could be one of the problems.
Barb
|
|
|
|
Post by lakeportfarms on Jan 28, 2014 6:42:18 GMT -5
Barb, we only treat ours in the late fall. We have little to no worm load prior to that due to our rotational grazing. We graze our pastures short though in the fall and they're eating the apples in the orchard, and mites have been our biggest concern. Ivermectin has always worked well for us. All of them are treated at the same time, and we change the bedding after each cow has been in the barn to calve. Injectable for the size of our herd now would be a major project and I'd rather just walk out in the pasture with them with the container on the strap and the gun in my hand, it's a 1-2 hour job like that and much less stressful for the herd too.
One year we even used the cheap Tractor Supply "Iver-On" and it worked well, though I've heard stories that it could cause chemical burns on their skin so we haven't used it since. It was $70.00 to treat the herd vs. $350.00 for the Cydectin.
|
|
|
|
Post by legendrockranch on Jan 28, 2014 11:27:32 GMT -5
That's a lot of money to be putting out and be unhappy with how the product works. You might want to contact the folks at Boehringer Ingelheim at let them know. It could be anything from a bad batch to an outdated product.
We have in the past contacted several pharmaceutical companies from bad protein tubs that have pieces of metal in them to vaccines that have changed color before their expiration dates. ALL have been very helpful and concerned. In the case of the vaccines they were shipped back at the companies expense and replaced at no charge. Everything has to be documented for your sake.
Barb
|
|
|
|
Post by lakeportfarms on Jan 28, 2014 12:20:19 GMT -5
That's a good suggestion Barb, I may do that as it is a lot of money for such a poor result. I did a little internet search and found a couple of posts on Cattle Today about Cydectin's lack of effectiveness on ticks, and somebody pointed out the alcohol base of the Ivermectin seemed to work better on external parasites than the oily or greasy base of the Cydectin. Seems like the same situation may occur with mange mites. In any case I'm looking at treating them all again with another dose of Ivermectin now, and I will probably have to do injections on the ones that are most afflicted. More expense and time on top of what I've already put out this early winter with the first treatment.
|
|
|
|
Post by lakeportfarms on Jan 28, 2014 12:34:36 GMT -5
I realize it's from a non-neutral source, but here is the result of a study between the two types of pour on's applied in the fall. Benefits of Treatment Today, the most efficacious method of lice treatment or prevention is the single application of a systemic pour-on. IVOMEC Pour-On, introduced to the market in 1990, was the first such systemic pour-on which delivered season-long lice control with a single application in the fall. Other systemic pour-on products have been approved for lice control, including DECTOMAX® (doramectin), CYDECTIN® (moxidectin), and IVOMEC EPRINEX® (eprinomectin). However, IVOMEC Pour-On is still known as the "Gold Standard" for full-season lice control. The graphs on the next page illustrate the results of research on the efficacy of IVOMEC Pour-On. Figure 1 represents results from a trial by Titchner et al(1) involving lice-free calves randomly assigned to either a negative control group (no treatment) or to one given IVOMEC Pour-On on Day 0. On Day 14, all the calves were exposed to donor calves heavily infested with the biting louse, Damalinia (Bovicola) bovis. Lice were counted weekly, until Day 55. Calves treated with IVOMEC Pour-On remained negative for lice up to Day 49 of the study, while the untreated control calves were infested with lice within 7 days of being exposed. Figure 2 is results from a trial by Polley et al(2) involving calves naturally infested with an average of about 1,000 lice each and who were assigned to treatment with either IVOMEC Pour-On or CYDECTIN Pour-On by restricted randomization on the basis of louse counts. The calves treated
with IVOMEC had no lice by Day 14 and remained lice-free until the endof the study on Day 56. The calves treated with the CYDECTIN had lice
throughout the entire 56-day study. In fact, five out of six cattle treated with
CYDECTIN had live lice on Days 28, 35, and 42, in contrast to no live lice
on those treated with IVOMEC (P<0.05).us.merial.com/Pdf/page_pdf/Lice_Infestations_of_Cattle_Diagnosis_and_Benefits_of_Treatment_with_IVOMEC_Pour_On.pdf |
|
|
|
Post by midhilldexters on Jan 28, 2014 15:14:37 GMT -5
Hey Hans. Why use a wormer, could you just buy a pour on for treating the mites? That way you are not worming animals that don't need to be wormed and wont build up a resistance to any wormer you use, especially if you have to give two treatments for the mites.
Just a thought,
Carol K
|
|
|
|
Post by lakeportfarms on Jan 30, 2014 8:07:07 GMT -5
Carol, do you think a permethrin product would be effective enough? I'm not sure that it is systemic, and I'd have to somehow get all of the possible areas of lice, not to mention the nearly daily snows that would probably reduce it's effectiveness.
I hate the thought of having to worm them again with an ivomec though. This is the worst lice infestation we've ever had, and I'm having a hard time separating the infested ones from those not showing any signs (yet) due to open cows, etc...so it's going to keep spreading if I don't use something effective.
I don't think I have any choice.
|
|
|
|
Post by midhilldexters on Jan 30, 2014 8:45:59 GMT -5
Hans I'm not sure if it would be effective enough with just one treatment, but would suggest two treatments to get the life cycle of anything that hatched after the first treatment wore off. Ultra boss is 5% and well known. There is something called Brute, made by Y-Tex that contains 10% Permethrin with no milk or meat withdrawal. I haven't used it but may be worth looking into. If you have any calving areas or stalls you use then I would suggest using a dust to treat that area to, maybe Python dust? The problem is unless you treat them all, you wont get anywhere. The sun is coming and that will help. I must admit, my go to wormer that works on lice would be Cydectin so I'm also surprised it didn't work for you.
Good luck hope you can get a handle on it.
Carol K
|
|
|
|
Post by Olga on Jan 30, 2014 8:47:25 GMT -5
I've had really good luck with the UltraBoss pour-on for external parasites.
|
|
|
|
Post by kansasdexters on Jan 30, 2014 8:59:00 GMT -5
Hans, Clean-up pour-on insecticide with IGR works very well to control lice (both the chewing and sucking lice varieties). Safe for use on lactating and non-lactating dairy cattle, beef cattle, calves, and horses. No withdrawal period required for milk or slaughter. Bayer Healthcare LLC makes it, Valley Vet carries it: www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=5b4f2a5c-efb8-4914-aab6-20a8a8ad485bPatti |
|
|
|
Post by lakeportfarms on Jan 30, 2014 9:22:36 GMT -5
Ok, thanks for all the help. I figured it would take a couple of treatments to handle the eggs that wouldn't be affected by a single treatment. I hate using all the chemicals, but I don't see any way of getting a handle on it at this stage since it's progressed so far. The thing is, we have 4 or 5 separate groups, without contact across a fence and several hundred yards of separation between them, and there are animals in each group that have the lice. We used the Cydectin on every single one, on the same day, in early November after several good hard freezes. We've done the same year after year with Ivermectin, and never a problem all winter long with lice. Carol, you're right about the sun, something we don't often see during the winter in the Great Lakes, but with all the cold temperatures and the lakes nearly freezing up that is the upside! I actually had to wear sunglasses for a while yesterday when I was out. I understand Lake Erie is 100 percent ice covered, your lake effect is turned off for now  |
|
|
|
Post by midhilldexters on Jan 30, 2014 9:37:36 GMT -5
yes Erie is frozen, happy dance. Keep us updated Hans on how treatment goes and what you ended up trying etc. etc. Carol K
|
|
