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Post by Julie on Mar 4, 2014 13:59:05 GMT -5
I am going to call my vet, but I figured I would post my question here also:
I have a heifer who has been out with the bull since November who is coming into heat every 21 days like clockwork. She is still out with the bull and he is actively breeding her. Why won't she get/stay pregnant? Is there anything to do or does she need to be culled? Of course she is one of my favorite, so the option of eating her is pretty low on the list, but I know it should be an option. Thanks for any advice you might have!
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Post by ssrdex on Mar 4, 2014 16:02:39 GMT -5
Hi Julie. Is she in with a proven, mature bull? I don't think it's uncommon for it to take a couple cycles with a heifer, she may be apprehensive. It's when you DON'T want them bred that it only takes once! Preg check would be a good start, but I wouldn't be thinking of culling her yet. Third time's a charm? Good luck!
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Post by emgiger on Mar 4, 2014 17:01:38 GMT -5
Hi Julie,
I would not give up on your girl just yet, although she should have been bred by now. ssrdex has a good point about a proven bull. If there is a check in that box I would move on to a visit with your vet, ideally one who can ultrasound her. Often times palpitation can yield answers, but I have seen too many misdiagnoses with this situation. A few years ago, I had a customer call me in tears saying that a beautiful red heifer I sold her was unable to be bred. The vet diagnosed this via palpitation. Since this gal lives close to UT-Knoxville (a teaching facility) I asked her if she'd be willing to take the heifer there (on my dime) for a more in-depth examination. I told her if she was in fact unable to be bred I would take her back and refund her money. Low and behold, the palpitating vet had it all wrong. The little heifer had some sort of injury to the vulva/anal area that was preventing pregnancy. Two weeks of antibiotics and she was ready to go. This cow just had her second little red heifer and is as healthy as can be. This past week I had a very similar circumstance……a customer whose cow was not getting pregnant called very upset. The vet came and palpitated and found a large mass/tumor and recommended getting rid of the cow. I had not sold this particular cow to this customer, but recommended he take the cow to UT-Knoxville for an exam. The cow was carrying a "mummy calf" (the cow absorbed the calf instead of giving birth). She is currently being given meds to help her abort and she should be ready to be bred in a few months. All that said Julie, your girl probably needs to see a vet and palpitation is better than nothing. Sorry for the drawn out response, but I would love to see you get to the bottom of what is going on. The best of luck!!!
Eileen
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Post by lakeportfarms on Mar 4, 2014 17:18:16 GMT -5
Hi all... I figured I'd answer a couple of the questions til julie gets back.. She got a bull from us back in October or so. He is about 16-17 months now but of course he was a virgin bull. I believe he's gotten 5 of her open hiefers and cows bred so its just this one girl. I'd probably suggest what Eileen suggested and maybe in the meantime put them in a small area alone so he doesn't have any interference since he's still pretty young, and it may be a reluctant heifer. Sent from my mobile.
Edited now from a real computer...Alyster (who is August 2012) probably doesn't have the presence yet to fend off too many cows that may also be trying to mount the heifer. If the heifer is a bit reluctant, she won't stand real well with all the commotion. But Sheri's right, do a blood test to check, and if she comes back open then have the vet out to palpitate to see if anything is going on. We've had a mummified calf before, but the heifer probably is a bit young for that and usually they show signs of being bred, no cycling at all. Sometimes heifers just have a bit of trouble getting bred. We had one that took better than 6-8 months to get bred the first time, after she's had her calf she bred back within a couple of months. She just wouldn't stand when she was younger. But if you have an area where you can just put the two along Julie that is fairly confined, he may have a better chance.
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Post by Julie on Mar 5, 2014 9:14:45 GMT -5
Good feedback, thanks! Also saw the thread about the pregnant cow who was still cycling. I am definitely going to preg-check all the girls - what is the lab to send the blood to again? I know there is a thread on that somewhere but didn't have time to search. What type of blood tube do I need to ask the vet to bring? Are most of you doing the blood test for preg checks? I guess that lets you know earlier than palpating? I have a growing list of things to have my vet help me with, so it will be worth paying the farm call fee.
I overreacted yesterday - other things had gone wrong and then I saw the bull mounting Lora the heifer and got frustrated. She is pretty high in the herd hierarchy so maybe she just isn't letting Alyster get the job completed. I will keep you posted!
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Post by lakeportfarms on Mar 5, 2014 9:26:29 GMT -5
Biopryn. www.biotracking.com/Your vet would take the samples and mail to the lab. It's a pretty easy process. There are certain windows after a cow has calved, but that wouldn't apply here, as far as after breeding, I think it's around 30 days or so. There is always the chance she's been bred but has slipped the pregnancy, in that case Eileen's suggestions are good ones to find out a possible cause. We only use it to confirm if we're planning on selling a bred heifer or cow. In cases like yours we'll usually have the vet check to make sure everything seems to be in order by palpitation. |
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Post by Julie on Mar 5, 2014 9:45:21 GMT -5
Thanks! I will make an appt with the vet, sounds like Lora should be palpated for sure but maybe just blood test the others? Palpation seems so invasive, but since Alyster is new on the job and I am new to breeding cows, I would like to check everyone.
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Post by lakeportfarms on Mar 5, 2014 10:46:13 GMT -5
Biopryn is easy to do yes, but Julie had some other things too for a farm call. There is something to be said for having a good relationship with your vet not just on the hard stuff but the easy stuff too, it's cheap insurance for when you really need them to show up. For a long time we just had our vet do our de-horning, shots, things like that to build that relationship. \
We do much of it ourselves now. We have a much larger herd and it would be prohibitively expensive to have our vet do it all, but due to our past history with him he is always there for us when we really need him and I would guess put us ahead of a "lesser" customer if he had to make a choice between emergencies to attend to. Our vet wasn't even taking new clients 10 years ago, he was that busy. We were lucky to get him through the referral of a friend (who has about 70 horses) when we started out. We would board our horses a couple of times/year at our friends for a month when the vet would come out so we could develop our own relationship with him. We always made sure we were there when he showed up so he got to know us.
Once Julie has had the opportunity to see how it's done then I would say have at it and you can save some money in the process.
Julie, our vet says he can determine at about 40 days at the earliest by palpitation. So I'd do both the biopryn (which generally shows pregnancy about 30 days post breeding) and probably have the vet palpitate just to make sure there isn't anything out of the ordinary with Lora's plumbing. If the biopryn shows up negative, and the plumbing is ok, try putting the two of them together in a smaller area without the other cows around so he has the best possible chance. He's also getting much bigger now I expect so he'll have a bit more presence than he had just a couple of months ago to help out.
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Post by Julie on Mar 5, 2014 12:01:09 GMT -5
Thanks, Sheri and Hans!
Sheri - remember I am a newbie! My vet actually showed me how to pull blood from their tail about a year ago, but I didn't practice it myself. So, I would like to have her show me again, and I figure with 9 cows I can do a few also. Then next time I should be confident to do it by myself. I still get nervous giving the cows shots - they sure do jump around more than my horses! Funny off-topic story - Last year I was so proud of my new little weanling halter-trained Dexter heifers that I thought I could hold them like a horse for vaccinations and ear tagging. HAH! After both my vet and I got jumped on and kicked, we decided we should use the squeeze chute.
I sang praises for my vet clinic on another thread - both vets are wonderful and I have a great relationship with them so I am lucky. They are always happy to help me, teach me, and answer all my questions.
Hans - another off-topic story Alyster recently showed a round bale that he was the big bad bull! He is very gentle and mild-mannered compared to my hungry-hippo cows, and usually stands back as the horned cows whack apart the outside of the hay bale. But he decided to join in on the last bale (a small 4x4 roll) and hit it several times with his best football player tackle. As I was laughing at him, he managed to knock it completely over and proceeded to continue tackling it as it rolled down a hill. Luckily the cows stood back and no one was squashed! It was pretty funny to watch, wish I had a video. So maybe he is getting to be the top of the herd.
Okay, enough stories, better get back to work!
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Post by lakeportfarms on Mar 5, 2014 13:58:22 GMT -5
Thanks for that visual Julie! I can just picture goofy Alyster (all young bulls are a bit goofy)attacking the round bale, which then tried to get away from him. No way was that round bale going to roll away from him, because he is in charge! I think he'll be a great boy for you, and yes it sounds like he's started to develop his place at the top of his own herd  Let us know the results when you have them... |
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Post by Julie on Mar 19, 2014 7:57:59 GMT -5
Update - vet was out to preg-check yesterday! Out of 9 ladies, 5 were confirmed pregnant by palpation and should be due in August/September. 2 got away! LOL - I have a lot to learn about working cows, and ornery Seara and shy Tillie escaped my holding pen prior to their turn! One, my shortie heifer Breanna, the vet wasn't 100% positive was pregnant, so we pulled blood to check. And Lora, the heifer that has been cycling on cue every 21 days, is definitely open with no obvious reproductive issues the vet could feel. So...what would you do? Since Lora is still open, I am tempted to put her out with my 9 month old bull calf. He is certainly acting like he is ready for a girlfriend! And at this point, if it takes a few more months for her to get bred, that would be okay with me because I am not terribly excited about January/Feb. births! My vet said that there were hormone treatments to "jump start" them, but she was hesitant to recommend that since she has been cycling so consistently. Any advice? Just wait and see? Meanwhile, I AM SO EXCITED that we are really going to have Dexter babies this year. Good job Alyster, you are going to be a Papa! |
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Post by lakeportfarms on Mar 19, 2014 8:42:23 GMT -5
Julie, Congratulations, I'm sure it's exciting though enjoy your spring and summer in the meantime Not great news about the heifer, but it's better than having one bred and 8 of them open! Hopefully Breanna comes back bred and the two that got away should be as well if you haven't observed any cycling recently from them. As far as Lora, I think that's a good plan to put him in with the other bull calf. More so to keep him company and probably delay your calving by a couple of months to miss the January/February dates. I'm going to guess that Lora may take a bit of time to get bred. We had a heifer here that did almost exactly the same as Lora, and I'd groan every time I'd see Mike mounting her. We finally broke down and put her in with another bull, and we saw no interest by the bull in her at all. We waited, and exactly 8 months after we put her in with the other bull out pops a cute little dun shortie heifer, Josie. Mike had done it in the last month he had her! We warned him we were going to take her away, so you should do the same with Alyster She's in the stall now due in a few days, bred back by Mike 2 months after she calved. It was just that first time that took so long and the breeding and calving must have changed up her hormones so she's not a problem to get bred any longer. So don't give up hope, it may just take her a while to settle and after that it will hopefully get better. I'm sure Alyster has some upcoming appointments with the other girls at your friend's farm, so hopefully the 9 month old bull can breed her successfully in a few months. If not, then you may want to get her back with Alyster if possible for a couple of months, and if that doesn't work, then I'd go the hormone route that your vet has discussed to maybe give her a little extra boost. |
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Post by Julie on Mar 19, 2014 10:18:37 GMT -5
Thanks, Hans! Good to know you had a similar situation that turned out okay. I am bummed about having a calf "out of sequence" with the others, but given the fact that I was starting with 8 heifers and a virgin bull I am certainly not going to complain! I will have a stern talk with Lora mentioning HAMBURGER...and see if that helps! She is lucky she doesn't live on a commercial cow farm. Bill and Kate (co-owners of Alyster) came out this morning to finally meet him! Of course Alyster had "dressed" for the occasion by rubbing his head in dirt and making sure to have hay stuck all over his body. LOL. Now I am off to figure out how to send blood to Biopryn!
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Post by lakeportfarms on Mar 19, 2014 18:48:11 GMT -5
Bill and Kate (co-owners of Alyster) came out this morning to finally meet him! Of course Alyster had "dressed" for the occasion by rubbing his head in dirt and making sure to have hay stuck all over his body. LOL. Now I am off to figure out how to send blood to Biopryn! He sounds like he's got the bull behavior down perfectly now  |
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Let us know the results when you have them...