Outstanding Dexter Bulls in the USA

[kansasdexters]

Thought it might be interesting to get some discussion going on Dexter herd sires and Dexter AI bulls that have proven themselves to be exceptional contributors to the Dexter breed in the United States over the past 50 years. In order to comment, please have first hand experience with the bull you are discussing and please post photos of the offspring produced by that bull.

Here are some things to think about:

1. What Dexter sires have been such consistent producers, that you would want to use them again because you know what to expect in their offspring?

2. What Dexter sires would you breed to every cow and heifer in your herd, without concerns of having any breeding issues (i.e. bull too big for breeding with Dexter heifers) or calving issues (i.e. calf too large for unassisted delivery)?

[zephyrhillsusan]

This is a great topic, kansasdexters. I'll be looking forward to reading the responses since I don't have enough experience with Dexter sires to speak up.

[kansasdexters]

I'm interested also! I've used a number of Dexter bulls over the years, including a number of AI bulls, and I've yet to find a single one that I would say that all of his offspring were consistent and predictable outcomes. The variations that we've seen are likely due to the great diversity of females that we started with.

As far as a Dexter bull that I'm very confident breeding to any cow in our herd, including Dexter and Kerry heifers, without any concerns of him being too large or about having any calving issues, the best one (so far) that we've had firsthand experience with, is Ace of Clove Brook.

Here is a photo of two of his weanling sons (steers), the shorter one is a Chondro-carrier, the taller one is a Chondro Non-carrier:

[thegoodag]

]Winestock Rufous
ADCA 017954


Has 57 direct Progeny in the registry. Here is one of this offspring Bar None's Chance.

I give up,  dropbox is not letting me put a picture here.  

www.dropbox.com/s/6h2ejbgm8ja943j/Bar%20None%20Chance%20-%202016.jpg?dl=0

[kansasdexters]

It's a small world, I knew Winestock Rufous when he was a calf! We live close to John & Sue Wine (Winestock Farms) and we've been friends for years. Here's a photo of Winestock Rufous when he was a calf, with his dam:

[littlecowfl]

I think it's a difficult topic because not everyone is looking for the same thing. We have many very successful sires over the past 50 years, but which type are you looking for? That makes the question very subjective. What is considered desirable (and passed down consistently) may be what one person is looking for while someone else may favor other traits that are not passed down.

I also like to know temperament, since we sell a lot of cows to first time buyers who work closely with their animals. I have to rely on word-of-mouth or the breeder's reputation for the AI bulls I choose. What about desirable traits in a bull that was later discovered to carry PHA? How would one judge those bulls? They were successful and I'm sure some passed down many desirable traits, as well as the undesirable recessive. How do you judge a bull like that in hindsight? Big contributor to the breed and perhaps some of his non-PHA offspring continue to contribute. I am not expressing favor for any bull. I just wanted to add some questions.

In horses, the Quarter Horses have some sires that were revered for over 50 years, then, a recessive cropped up and now those same sires are demonized. The recessive only showed up when people concentrated the lines (severely inbred) the horses. Who should get blamed? The initial sire, or those who concentrated the genetics until a deleterious recessive showed up in one of his lines?

I wonder which of our most popular bulls now will be the next to have a deleterious recessive show up in an offspring. I suspect every bull has the potential to carry something deleterious. Whether or not it's expressed depends on how much we reduce the diversity in the offspring (how much we push it while line breeding) and random recombination in the offspring. I think sometimes we are our own worst enemy when we seek to concentrate the genetics of a few highly prized animals and end up with an expressed recessive traits. Some of those expressed recessive traits make the animal's phenotype amazing, but what else lurks in those concentrated genetics?

I don't know if this makes any sense. I studied genetics quite a bit (my degrees are in biology and heavy on biochemistry/genetics). I think it's really helpful to have a strong background in genetics when you're breeding any kind of animal. For me, it makes me less wiling to depend on line breeding too much (though many have tried and tested the lines I use, and I am grateful for that).

[zephyrhillsusan]

Here are some things to think about:

1. What Dexter sires have been such consistent producers, that you would want to use them again because you know what to expect in their offspring?

2. What Dexter sires would you breed to every cow and heifer in your herd, without concerns of having any breeding issues (i.e. bull too big for breeding with Dexter heifers) or calving issues (i.e. calf too large for unassisted delivery)?

Hopefully the original post will address some of the questions you raised, littlecowfl , if people will give explanations with their answers.  For example, if bulls are consistent producers, what type of animal do they produce?  That information, especially with some photos to illustrate, would be really helpful.

I think there are certain traits we all want--for instance, calving ease--no matter what type of animal we're interested in.  That kind of input would be really helpful, especially with some birth weights recorded--not just anecdotal accounts.  

I do hope someone with many years of experience will chime in here for the benefit of people like me who've only been breeding for a few years. 

[kansasdexters]

I'm asking for discussion on bulls that are considered to be "exceptional contributors" to the Dexter breed, along with firsthand accounts supporting this claim and photos of the offspring. The Dexter breed has a breed description, so I would expect this discussion to include the sires that are producing offspring that mature into animals that fit within the parameters and description of the Dexter breed.

The only way to identify and remove most deleterious recessive genes from a breeding population is to linebreed and cull, because only a few of these recessive genes are identified by testing at the present time. Allowing deleterious, untestable recessive genes to go forward, generation after generation, is not desirable.

Having the ability to test and identify carriers of recessive deleterious mutations (i.e. PHA), allows for the managed use of carriers that are exceptional in all other aspects, and selective culling of their tested offspring, in order to obtain animals that are free from the undesired recessive mutation(s). So there can be exceptional herd sires and AI bulls that are carriers of known recessive genes, as long as there is the option of testing and culling to obtain improvement over time and eventual removal of the undesired recessive gene from the breeding population in a herd.

[cddexter]

Well, of course I'd have to still say Saturn of Knotting. There are only a couple of his sons out there, but they've more than proved themselves: Galaxy and Warlord. Strong genetic consistency, true dual purpose, good muscle, excellent udders. In my not very humble option. Since the bull is only half the equation, some credit has to go to the cows, but I've seen both bulls fix major faults in dams in just one generation. Maybe Patti has more experience in volume offspring? c.

[kansasdexters]

c.

The two cows that are poised to make the most significant contribution to my herd are both daughters of the AI bull, Bedford Romarc Rambler. They are Wakarusa BRR Nina and Wakarusa BRR Lucy. We have kept a son, sired by Ace of Clove Brook, from each of these cows, and we have kept most of their daughters. The sons are Wakarusa ACB Nico and Wakarusa ACB Leif. Nico is now a 2-year old, and his first offspring started arriving this spring (so far, 3 heifers and 1 bull). Leif will be used for the first time as a breeder, this summer. These two young bulls are among the best we've ever produced, so time will tell if the decision to use them within our herd was a good choice or not. I'm optimistic at this point and encouraged by the quality of Nico's first offspring. This is a current photo of Wakarusa ACB Nico (Ace of Clove Brook x Wakarusa BRR Nina):

[Lynne Simpson 180Farm FaberVA]

Been so long since I tried to post anything, that I forgot how to do it let alone attach pics.  Anyway, I am with you on Ace of Clovebrook.  We used him for AI for 2 seasons and although I never thought about it until you posted kansasdexters, but now that you mention it his progeny were always a very manageable size...small enough for me to handle, yet all seem to grow out very nicely.  We had used Big Mac for 2 seasons as well, and his calves were on the small side if I remember, yet grew nicely as well.

By the way, we just got back our first cow from "Freezer Camp".  She was 7 years old and stopped producing after 3 calves despite all the recommendations from the Vet. and the company of a proven bull.  I had read that Dexter cows were just as tasty as young steers, but non-Dexter owners said I would be in for a tough one and that I should have grained her up.  Since we are totally grass-fed, I just crossed my fingers and thought to myself that I would probably have to discount the beef or try to use it all myself.  But, surprisingly, that cow is absolutely tender and full-flavored, and I will have no problem selling retail cuts from her or taking another cow for processing.  So happy we picked these great Dexters!       

May 28, 2016 17:36:11 GMT -5 kansasdexters said:

I'm interested also! I've used a number of Dexter bulls over the years, including a number of AI bulls, and I've yet to find a single one that I would say that all of his offspring were consistent and predictable outcomes. The variations that we've seen are likely due to the great diversity of females that we started with.

As far as a Dexter bull that I'm very confident breeding to any cow in our herd, including Dexter and Kerry heifers, without any concerns of him being too large or about having any calving issues, the best one (so far) that we've had firsthand experience with, is Ace of Clove Brook.

Here is a photo of two of his weanling sons (steers), the shorter one is a Chondro-carrier, the taller one is a Chondro Non-carrier: