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Post by copperhead on Dec 1, 2008 22:13:14 GMT -5
I'm wondering how the DNA testing is going to affect our cattle. I wonder if we come up with bulls that are not "pure" does that negate the registrations of our calves?? If my bull is not 100 % who do I go back to ? If a bull 8 generations back was not pure, his bloodlines are forever muddied, and a lot of inocent buyers are stuck with less than purebreed cattle. I really wonder what is this going to mean to the whole registry. Anyone got any thoughts on this.............
P.J.
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Post by robert5721 on Dec 2, 2008 18:49:11 GMT -5
PJ,
As far as I know, your bull already has a five generation pedigree behind it, as all ADCA registered animals do. The genotyping test that is being considered has nothing to do with proving "Purity"..it has to do with being able to identify offspring from your bull if needed at future dates in time..nothing more, nothing less. The test provides a genetic fingerprint of the calf being registered. In time, with enough tests on file in the database, we may be able to test for purity, but a long time will it take for that to ever happen.
Robert Seddon
Olde Towne Farm
Mineral, Virginia
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Post by onthebit on Dec 3, 2008 9:25:10 GMT -5
It's an idea whose introduction into a purebred heritage breed is long over due. Parentage testing in Standardbreds has been enforced for at least 10 yrs now. There is no longer any question regarding the sire and dam of a foal. All their DNA is on record.
This practice will eliminate questions regarding newly registered bulls. It will be especially useful in sorting out who's who when it comes to farms who run several diff. bulls or several breeds, which is what is causing some of the old bulls to come under attack.
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Post by copperhead on Dec 3, 2008 11:12:33 GMT -5
ahhhh, that turned on the lightbulb for me..............thanks. I really didn't understand what the testing was for, now it makes sense...once again, thank you
P.J.
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Honeycreek Dexters
member
All Natural Drug Free Grass Fed Beef, From Our Herd Sire Phoenix
Posts: 362
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Post by Honeycreek Dexters on Dec 11, 2008 15:24:16 GMT -5
The wife and I have been talking about this topic, trying to sort out the pros and cons ------------ and the pit falls. I am so glad this thread is started. I guess my concern is, I have a polled sire and was wondering if this testing might be the first step toward any one or any organization saying that because of that trait my animals are not pure Dexter. A lot of you are more involved with the politics of the 2 associations than I and have a much better handle on these things, please keep the rest of us informed. We only have a few days left to send our proxy in. Thanks to all that responded. Very informative.
hcd
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Post by copperhead on Dec 11, 2008 16:52:18 GMT -5
I think it's probably a good idea, we could use results to figure out what bloodlines we want to use, for developing certain qualities in our calf crop, BUT......... like you, I wonder what will come of the results later on. It always seems like something like this can turn around and bite you on the butt, I guess thats why I feel some nervousness about it, I'm planning to vote for the testing, because I think in theory, it's a good plan. Like Honeycreek, please keep some discussion going, we're running out of time.
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Post by liz on Dec 11, 2008 17:23:46 GMT -5
Hi; We've had genotype testing in Canada for quite some time and its use is for parentage testing. If you want to know other factors about the bull, chondro status, colour carrier, tenderness gene etc they are different tests but the genotyping is only to mark HIS identity. Any bull, live cover or AI, must be on record. I think it is a great system because if ever there is a question about the sire of a calf it can be resolved quickly and simply by sending a few of the tail hairs of the calf to be tested against the sire's, no more he said/she said rumours. Issues of purity, polledness are already resolved simply by meeting the requirements of registration of your association and have nothing to do with this test, nor could they in the future, to my knowledge. Hope this helps, Liz
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Post by onthebit on Dec 11, 2008 19:48:38 GMT -5
It is already too late for the polled bulls to be taken out of the registry so no worries there. Both associations voted to allow them. This test will only conclude that the calf being registered is by the same parents you said they were by. (Or the bull you named as the sire)
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Post by onthebit on Dec 11, 2008 19:51:26 GMT -5
You will normally know who the dam is, but not always. I am going to assume this is a typo?  |
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Honeycreek Dexters
member
All Natural Drug Free Grass Fed Beef, From Our Herd Sire Phoenix
Posts: 362
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Post by Honeycreek Dexters on Dec 12, 2008 18:21:11 GMT -5
I would not, nor do I know any one that would, but who is to say that the sample submitted initially is legitimate. What if an unscrupulous individual rigged the first sample? Will there be someone from the lab standing there watching the collection of said sample? How do other organizations deal with this? Or will the results prevent or show this type of shenanigans. What if hair from more than one animal was mixed and submitted. As you can see genetics baffle me. If the testing cant determine purity couldn't I submit the sample from a cross breed. Or even another breed? Just playing devils advocate here.
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Post by onthebit on Dec 13, 2008 7:01:00 GMT -5
I would not, nor do I know any one that would, but who is to say that the sample submitted initially is legitimate. What if an unscrupulous individual rigged the first sample? Will there be someone from the lab standing there watching the collection of said sample? How do other organizations deal with this? Or will the results prevent or show this type of shenanigans. What if hair from more than one animal was mixed and submitted. As you can see genetics baffle me. If the testing cant determine purity couldn't I submit the sample from a cross breed. Or even another breed? Just playing devils advocate here. Anything can happen, it just isn't as likely to happen if there is a DNA data bank. |
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Post by onthebit on Dec 13, 2008 7:09:29 GMT -5
Since they are only testing the bulls here in Canada, I could, for example register the limoX calf I'm expecting (presuming it's a heifer) as a full blood dexter. I could say the polledness is a miraculous mutation and then breed her to a dexter who has been parentage verified. Now the resulting beefy, polled bull calf can be registered as pure because his sire is in the databanks.....
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Post by tiffin on Dec 13, 2008 8:05:59 GMT -5
onthebit, you have said a mouth full there.
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Post by marion on Dec 13, 2008 8:32:53 GMT -5
Since they are only testing the bulls here in Canada, I could, for example register the limoX calf I'm expecting (presuming it's a heifer) as a full blood dexter. I could say the polledness is a miraculous mutation and then breed her to a dexter who has been parentage verified. Now the resulting beefy, polled bull calf can be registered as pure because his sire is in the databanks..... On the bit..if you attempted to register a polled heifer from horned parents, it would not be registered. If you persisted in attempting to register the animal, you would have to present DNA proof. Your Dexter bulls are DNA'd. See our (CDCA) bylaws, 19.2(e) 'Where there is any doubt as to the parentage..DNA at owners expense'. See also 21.8 Incorrect or fraudeulent regitrations, and Section 64(a)..no person shall knowingly.. marion |
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Post by onthebit on Dec 13, 2008 9:58:00 GMT -5
Marion: I was using this scenario as a plausibility! I do have integrity!
Charlotte
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