DNA testing

[marion]

Hi, Char i realize you were playing Devil's advocate. I was trying to point out that your scenario was not plausible, given the existing rules of our association..marion

[onthebit]

You mean miraculous polledness would be questioned? What if I never said anything about its horns?

[marion]

Dec 13, 2008 10:35:49 GMT -5 onthebit said:

You mean miraculous polledness would be questioned? What if I never said anything about its horns?

I think it says something about the integrity of our (CDCA) members, that no one has tried to do such a thing. The alternative to DNAing bulls only, is to DNA every calf born. Is this what you are would like our association to require? Put it forward next year then for a vote. I for one, know where my calves come from, and I would not want the added expense of testing every calf. Yes, in your scenario, it would be possible to have a polled calf, with the dam and granddam already in the freezer. Which would require a deliberate misregistration of polled animals as horned and making sure the animals have been disposed of. I think it would be a shame to have the expense of complete DNA testing of all animals imposed on every breeder, to cover the sloppy breeding practices or possible fraud of a few.. Perhaps a more reasonable requirement, would be for everyone to keep tail hairs on every registered Dexter they have owned, in case future proof would be required. Hey, I think I might just propose that next year..marion

[windmill]

I have hair samples from every Dexter stored. Just in case. I need something tested.

[Honeycreek Dexters]

Marion: I see you are located to the north but you refer to our organization. Are you a member of ADCA? Just curious. I for one would not like to pay/test every animal but that is one of the possibilities if we start down this path. That is why I think this topic is so important, we need to hash it out so we can make the best choice for us as breeders.

[marion]

Hi Honeycreek, sorry for the confusion; I will edit my post above. I was responding to Onthebit about Canada and the Bylaws from the CDCA. I think keeping tail hair might be a good alternative to having to DNA every animal.
I was delighted to get one years' free membership as a new owner of an ADCA reg'd animal, but sad to say I never did receive a copy of the ADCA Bylaws..marion

[onthebit]

Marion, I wonder why it is so expensive to verify the parentage of cattle when it costs us in the standardbred industry 100 bucks to verify both parents are the parents of the newly registered foal.

I do agree that with your idea to have people have hair samples on hand. Just in case there are questions at a future date!

[liz]

That's the same price, I think. The genotype test for a bull is $45. L

[liz]

Hi Gene; I have been mulling over your response about a 'sire test' not being accurate and in light of the fact that we have been doing this for a number of years with bull registrations, I started to wonder about it's efficacies. I was going to give Ron Black a call when I stumbled upon this post by Carol on dc2, I think in response to same assertions. Ron is the Secretary of our Association, many others and the General Manager of all the livestock recording agency in Canada. You see we are mandated under one roof, no matter what breed of what animal by Federal Legislation. With all due respect, I just don't understand how a guy that spends his life work with this and advising on it would not have it correctly. Anyway, here it is and mea culpa Carol, hope it's ok but I didn't want to reinvent the wheel. Cheers, Liz

oh and ps that IS assuming you know who the dam is, if not integrity alone would demand that you test both, in Canada as well as elsewhere in the world.


"I just talked with Ron Black, the General Manager of the Canadian
Livestock Records, the Canadian government registry for registered
livestock and pets. The CDCA has had sire dna as a requirement for
quite a few years, and they now have enough sires on file that they
automatically (without charge) compare new bull calf registrations to
the sire for sire verification. This is a painless way to keep the
registry (mostly) accurate, it's transparent to the members, and all
part of the service.

So, you don't need three or five or more generations. Just the sire
alone is enough to confirm he is correct. I asked Ron specifically
about this, and he said yes, science is sufficiently advanced now
that it is possible to compare the calf to just the one parent, and
know for certain if that bull is the correct sire.

I'm sure that there are cases where a full verification might be
necessary, but for the run of the mill registrations, it isn't.
Thought you'd like this tidbit, as it is contrary to other info
published here (mine and others), and may be helpful to you reaching
a decision.

Carol Davidson."

[liz]

Well Gene not being a geneticist I am not prepared to argue with you yet. Also not knowing the veracity or qualifications of the 'someone' you phoned, I am not prepared to agree with you yet so I guess I have some homework to do over the holidays. Liz

[liz]

Yup you're right about the horseshoes, but my understanding had been that the cow/bull always would throw the same code at the same location.... obviously I have my homework cut out. Merry Christmas Gene and a Happy, Peaceful New Year for everyone. L

[Honeycreek Dexters]

Someone's interpretation of "good enough" may be 50/50. I about fell out of my chair when i read that. Genebo, I still work for the govt. I am a research technician and spend my days surrounded by a bunch of PH D'S if there is one thing i have learned it is you can say or prove anything with numbers. Sometimes you just need more numbers. I'm the guy that collects the data (numbers), And as such this also means you can disprove anything with numbers. 50/50 means that if you have one foot in a raging fire and the other in a bucket of ice cold water you on average should be perfectly comfortable. Yet another reason for continued discussion. Thanks to all for the very informative postings.

[tiffin]

Since, I haven't heard that PDCA is going to require this genotyping, I wonder how many folks will head over there to register their animals?

[windmill]

Why in God's name would anyone register anything with the PDCA. The people who had any dealings with the people that started the PDCA still remember how is was with them and the new ones will figure it out soon enough.

[imapetal]

Hi all - I really dont understand it - all this fluffing around about DNA testing!!

In Australia we PV (parent verify) all animals by DNA test,(at the one lab) before we register.

And the fees are in Australian Dollars:

DNA parent verification $30 (Tail hairs with hair follicles on them)

Registration FEES . Late fees, double the price.

Males - up to 36 months of age $60.60
Females - up to 18 months of age $44

Bull accrediation for AI $220

The University of Qld does the DNA PV testing.

We have advanced to the stage that we no longer accept blood typing for PV, and if an animal has been identified by blood typing, it needs to be re-verified by DNA so that its progey can be registered.

I believe our labs use up to 15 markers in the PV process.