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Post by prairieboy on Jul 11, 2010 9:23:07 GMT -5
In one of the beef threads some of you mention that your customers thought grass fed beef tasted gamey. I do not want to turn off my very 1st customers with 100% grass fed beef that they think tastes funny.
We want to feed 100% grass and are wondering if the taste can be made "better" by feeding dry grass hay or feeding an increased amount of alfalfa hay instead of green growing grass.
We want to do some butchering in September and can feed nothing but pasture. But, if the taste can be altered to be closer to what people have come to expect I am not against that. We do not want to feed grain however, just dry hay versus green pasture.
If you have any ideas, please chime in. Thank you
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Honeycreek Dexters
member
All Natural Drug Free Grass Fed Beef, From Our Herd Sire Phoenix
Posts: 362
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Post by Honeycreek Dexters on Jul 11, 2010 11:04:31 GMT -5
Real farm raised beef will taste dif. than store bought cause it's not fed all the junk feed lot cattle are fed to fatten quickly. About half of the flavor profile is related to the last 48 hours of the animals life i.e. if it is stressed or kept calm. If you want great tasting beef keep him calm for the last hours of life. Just my opine others are free to have their own.
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Post by kansasdexters on Jul 11, 2010 17:42:32 GMT -5
When we first started our grassfed/grass-finished beef business, the person that helped us the most was our custom processor, Aaron Higby (Santa Fe Trail Meats in Overbrook, KS). Before we'd processed our first Dexter steer, I spent an afternoon with Aaron in the cold room, looking at carcasses, discussing meat cuts, the dry-aging process, the differences in grass finished vs. grain finished, etc. Aaron has a Masters Degree in Meat Science from Kansas State University, he also has years of experience as a rancher/producer, and he knows more about meat than I will ever know. He took the time to explain to me why most grass-finished carcasses frequently don't have the eating qualities desired by typical consumers, i.e. taste, tenderness, and marbling. He pointed out that the biggest factor with most grass finished animals is that they weren't properly fattened before they are processed. They either weren't allow sufficient time on good pasture or they were harvested too young, or they weren't a suitable breed for grass finishing, or all three. When an animal doesn't have a sufficiently thick layer of fat on the outside of its carcass, then it cannot be properly hung and dry-aged (14 to 21 days). Most "grass finished" carcasses are cut within 7 days of slaughter because if they hang for longer times, the exposed flesh (without fat cover) dries out and must be wasted when the carcass is cut up. Hanging the meat for a sufficient period of dry-aging time (14 to 21 days) allows it to develop its best flavor and natural tenderness. So having a properly fattened animal is paramount to obtaining the best quality in terms of taste and texture. This condition applies whether the animal is grass-fattened or grain-fattened. Grass fattening takes longer than grain fattening, but the grass fattened meat has specific health benefits (higher in Omega-3 fatty acids and CLA) and it has a unique, rich, beefy-sweet taste -- when it is fed out and processed properly. Our 24 to 29-month old steers go directly from our best pasture to our barn lot to spend the night before they are taken to the processor. They are given excellent quality brome hay and fresh water on their last night. They are quietly loaded into the trailer early in the morning (while it's cool) and taken directly to the processor (only eight miles from our place). Once there, they are briefly held in small pens (inside an air conditioned room), and then they are individually put through the "kill chute" and slaughtered quickly and humanely with a single bullet to the brain. All of this is done calmly, quietly, and with care to avoid stressing the animal. IMO, before you ever sell any custom processed beef to a "customer", it pays to be your own "first customer". If you don't like what you have raised and processed, don't expect others to like it either. If your processor isn't good to work with, find another processor. Work out the "bugs" in your operation before you try retailing or wholesaling any meat. Your reputation is at stake with every sale, so make sure every sale results in a satisfied, happy customer. You are your own best "QA/QC" (quality assurance/quality control), so it pays in the long run if you are eating your own homegrown beef and enjoying it immensely before you "go public" with it. Patti Adams WAKARUSA RIDGE RANCH www.kansasdexters.com
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Post by prairieboy on Jul 11, 2010 18:17:12 GMT -5
Thank you for the excellent information.
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Post by Clive on Jul 22, 2010 2:28:43 GMT -5
In terms of feeding for taste, you can change the taste with the grazing you have. We have seeded our fields with some moderately high sugar grasses of many varieties, and also quite a lot of white clover. Clover gets more minerals and apparently 2/3'rds more omega-3 into the animal (and it's milk and therefore presumably the calves). Those new leys have made it easier to finish the animals, but we have to keep our breeding cattle of them. Also, and very interestingly, when we finish our lambs on these clover-rich leys, it can quite often (not always for some reason) be quite hard to distinguish our lamb from our beef.
We had an open day here for 40 dexter breeders a couple of years ago, and Caroline served our lamb. They thanked us for a lovely dexter beef meal, and said how tasty it was!!!
There are tests that have now been carried out where they have discovered in a scientific way and with a professional taste panel, that not only does grass-fed beef taste better to most but also that the taste you are experiencing actually IS the beneficial fatty acids. i.e. the improved taste and the improved health benefits are one in the same.
PS. From what I know, omega 3 is only really contained in the growing grass and presumably this is the same with other plants. When you wilt the grass for making hay, as it wilts it quickly looses most if not all it's health benefits. If you can make silage / haylage, and can wilt as little as you dare and then wrap the bales, then quite a bit of the goodness is retained, but hay, according to the tests I have looked at, contains effectively zero Omage-3 because it has been lost in the drying process.
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Post by Clive on Jul 24, 2010 7:19:20 GMT -5
Hi Gene It's not one bit of research, the details are contained in various publications, but I can't think where particularly at the moment. One of the best sources is the AGA and also the Union of Concerned Scientists. AGA have different levels of grass-fed status, the highest I believe being "pasture-raised", which I THINK means the animals were raised on live growing pasture 24/7, 365, or thereabouts. I've just looked on their website but couldn't find what I wanted. What is said is that when you make forage, as it wilts it looses it's omega-3 (and presumably other goodies) and it does so very quickly. Obviously, like us and most, you probably have no choice. We just bale and wrap ours when it is as green as we dare. But we have to let it wilt to get it to ferment. That's how I understand it. So my understanding is that someone out-wintering their cattle on live green brassicas (Kale for example) is more "grass-fed" (in a sense) than cattle wintered indoors and fed hay. In a way, the term grass-fed is misleading as I see it. What maybe it should have been called is "not grain fed" or "green leaves fed". Not quite so catchy though! I'll try and dig out my sources and post details. Added later...just found an article re horses "Did you ever wonder why the beautiful bloom on your horse seems to disappear in winter – when your horse is on a hay-based diet? This is because there are important nutritional differences between a horse eating fresh grass and hay (dehydrated grass) – and these differences can affect a horse’s health. Fresh grass is a rich source of essential fatty acids, especially Omega-3 essential fatty acids. The ratio of Omega-3 to Omega-6 in natural fresh grass is 3:1. However, when the grass plant dies -- some of the essential fatty acids, found in the cell walls of live plants, are lost completely. The more delicate Omega-3 fats do not survive the dehydration process so the ratio of Omega-3 to Omega-6 in hay becomes 0:1. Therefore, Omega-3 essential fatty acids are likely to be deficient in the diet. Sufficient Omega-3 essential fatty acids are vital to a well balanced diet and have been shown to alleviate problems with a dull thin coat, poor hoof growth, and stiff immobile joints."This winter I am going to feed my animals linseed (flax-seed?) if I can get any, to see if they retain a better coat etc and to see whether it comes through in the flavour of the beef. I've also got a few dexters that go skinny during the winter and nothing I do or feed them seems to make any difference. As soon as they are out on green grass, they fill out and look great. Got a feeling that might be to do with omega-3's as well. We'll see. Also go to www.eatwild.com/healthbenefits.htm and go down the page to the heading "Afternoon hay may be better than morning hay, but fresh grass is best!"
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Post by prairieboy on Jul 25, 2010 16:19:14 GMT -5
That really is interesting about grass and hay. I have long heard that one should butcher just as the pasture is fading. I thought it had to do with saving winter's hay and having a fat animal. Now health and nutrition are also part of the picture.
Thank you.
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Post by prairieboy on Jul 30, 2010 16:14:28 GMT -5
Clive or anyone else: Is it know how long it takes the omega 3 to leave an animal once the animal is no longer eating growing grasses.
I wonder about this because once in a while a beef becomes ready to butcher in late fall or winter after it has switched to dry grass/alfalfa hay.
On the other hand, once growing grass becomes the diet, how long is it before the omega 3-6 ratio is corrected?
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Post by allmuxedup on Aug 7, 2010 20:06:07 GMT -5
....People who have grown up on that taste have learned to like it and won't appreciate the flavor of grass fed beef, slowly finished, from a breed that doesn't put on a lot of outside body fat. .....I'm trying to say that you should sell to people that LIKE grass fed beef, not to the general public. .... I'm sorry Gene.... I really think you're wrong here! I was raised on corn fed beef. From my first taste of pasture finished (Dexter) beef... I was hooked! My daughter had become a vegitairan, because she just didn't like meat. She was hooked from the first bite. She took my plate & tried to take her brothers (he growled at her & she retreated.) I've convereted several people to pasture fed meat. Not all of them buy my meat, but they all now buy pasture finished. (Not all can buy whole, halfs or split-halfs.) I just got a voice mail from my Oncologist. She's converted & wants a half. The only person I've failed to convert was a woman who was so proud of buying 4H steers & having a processor's license yanked when he switched carcasses on her. She just can't let go of the outrage of what he did..... he switched her corn-finished for a grass-finished which just had to be inferior!!! She won't even try my meat! lol Everyone else loves it from the get go. My only problem is that everyone near my farm raises their own beef. I'm fixing the transportation issues & then I can travel w/ it.
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Post by allmuxedup on Aug 7, 2010 20:28:46 GMT -5
Clive or anyone else: Is it know how long it takes the omega 3 to leave an animal once the animal is no longer eating growing grasses. I wonder about this because once in a while a beef becomes ready to butcher in late fall or winter after it has switched to dry grass/alfalfa hay. On the other hand, once growing grass becomes the diet, how long is it before the omega 3-6 ratio is corrected? I can't say about the O-3/O-6 profile. But, I know that CLA maxes out at 3 months, on green growing grass. They seem to go hand-in-hand, so I'm going to guess it's the same. The reports I've read say that after one week off that green growing grass, CLA levels are measurably lower. Again... it would be my guess that the O-3/O-6 profile would be the same. We harvest our meat at the ends of June (grass starts in March) & November (very little rain mid July to the end of August & the grass stops growing.) We generally have 3+ good months of green growing grass in Spring & Fall. I emphasize growing because a lot of grass hay is green!
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Post by allmuxedup on Aug 7, 2010 21:08:53 GMT -5
Are they saying that, even after it's done growing... it has the O-3/O-6 profile of green, growing grass? Or, are they saying that fescue as a grass has more? Why not fescue hay? stockpiled grass isn't too very much different than that same grass made into hay.... is it?
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Post by Clive on Aug 8, 2010 2:48:00 GMT -5
According to the reports I have read, wrapped silage, especially if it contains a lot of clover or legumes of another sort maybe, will still have omega-3 in it, much reduced though. One year I managed to do some like that, wilted for 24 hours, and although the bales were slightly soft, the stuff was fantastic and so was the beef in winter. But very difficult to get it right, only managed it once!
I've seen tests where they took cattle off grass and put them on a finishing diet of corn. After 90 days there was very little omega-3's left and after 120 days there was just about none. I've also seen tests done on milk where they did the same diet change (grass to corn) but then they changed them back to grass again. The levels of omega-3 never got back to normal. I say "never", I think from memory that was after about a year or two. But as I say, that was a trial on the milk, but maybe it would be the same for the beef, makes sense.
I don't know what you mean by "stockpiled grass" Gene. Does that mean cutting it, wilting it for a small amount of time and then putting it in a pit and covering it to ferment, or wrapping it in plastic? We call that silage, don't know what you call it? If so, I've seen reports that say this will retain more omega-3 but I haven't a clue as to how much.
It's a fascinating subject isn't it. With all our science and amazing abilities, we are only just realising that eating meat from animals that have been grazed as they were designed to do, is better for you!
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Post by Clive on Aug 8, 2010 10:47:47 GMT -5
I see. Some people do that over in the UK and we call it "foggage" but people who do it are rare. Strip grazing over winter is very common indeed over here and works extremely well; it's a lot of work in bad weather and mud. Usually a back field is available so the cattle can come off the grazing strip and walk back to some grass to lie on. Almost always though the crop is a brassica or root crop of some sort, such as kale, turnips, forage rape. These crops produce massive amounts of feed, a lot of it green, and some are good in omega-3 I understand except maybe the root bit on turnips.
Feeding for taste is one thing, but what about slaughter for taste. I've just had a lamb ready for market broke it's leg so I shot it immediately and butchered it. The lamb is simply stunning, the best I've had in my life. It just didn't know anything was coming, no travelling, no change of any sort. Bit different with cattle because of the hanging, but I'd love to be able to do the whole thing on farm, it must make a big difference I'd guess.
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Post by allmuxedup on Aug 8, 2010 18:38:16 GMT -5
Clive, I harvest in the pasture. Give 'em a cookie, let him enjoy most of it & BANG!!! he never knows what's coming. His last thoughts are happy ones, in his own, comfortable surroundings. I've had people tell me that their cattle w/be asleep in the trailer when they get to the processor. That could be, not gonna call 'em a liar. But, taking them to harvest has just got to be more stressful than having the harvestor come to them.
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Post by Clive on Aug 12, 2010 12:29:48 GMT -5
That's the way to do it allmuxedup. We can do that over here as long as it's for the home freezer and not for sale.
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